CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Gilmore is the best player on a historically great defense. https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1206444616620396550 Only Defenses better 14 games in Are 91 Eagles, 02 Bucs, and 85 Bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: Gilmore is the best player on a historically great defense. https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1206444616620396550 Only Defenses better 14 games in Are 91 Eagles, 02 Bucs, and 85 Bears Its true. Gilmore is the best player on a above average defense. Those historical #s were built against an equally historically weak schedule. There are definitely elements of this defense that are really good and Gilmore is currently the best CB in the league, his defense has nothing to do with it. Having said that, imo its between him and Watt and the #3guy on the list ain't even close imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, wwhickok said: Its true. Gilmore is the best player on a above average defense. Those historical #s were built against an equally historically weak schedule. There are definitely elements of this defense that are really good and Gilmore is currently the best CB in the league, his defense has nothing to do with it. Having said that, imo its between him and Watt and the #3guy on the list ain't even close imo DVOA adjusts for SOS and competition. Nice try though https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods Edited December 16, 2019 by CP3MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: DVOA adjusts for SOS and competition. Nice try though https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods It ain't a try. The teams for the most part that NE has played have been trash. They've lost 3/4 of the games they've played against good teams while playing subpar defense. Like I said, that defense has some good players. Gilmore is the best CB in the league. But that is not an elite defense. Nice try though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, wwhickok said: It ain't a try. The teams for the most part that NE has played have been trash. They've lost 3/4 of the games they've played against good teams while playing subpar defense. Like I said, that defense has some good players. Gilmore is the best CB in the league. But that is not an elite defense. Nice try though. And what part of DOVA adjusts for strength of schedule don’t you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, CP3MVP said: And what part of DOVA adjusts for strength of schedule don’t you understand? You can use adjusted stats all you want. I dont need adjusted stats to tell you that the Dolphins, Bengals, Browns, Jets, Redskins, Giants are all terrible teams and the Cowboys and Eagles are mediocre and inconsistent. You also add Pittsburgh to that who didnt even bother showing up to the game.. Those adjusted stats apply no actual context to the quality of a roster. Excluding Pittsburgh, Philly, Dallas, KC, Bal, Buf, Houston. The combined record of their opponents is 21-63. Adding in Pittsburgh, Philly and Dallas, they're opposing records are 43-83 Obviously the win column goes up when you consider Buffalo, KC, Houston, and Baliktore but again, they lost to 3/4 of those teams. The majority of their schedule, regardless of what the stats make YOU think, was weak as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, wwhickok said: You can use adjusted stats all you want. I dont need adjusted stats to tell you that the Dolphins, Bengals, Browns, Jets, Redskins, Giants are all terrible teams and the Cowboys and Eagles are mediocre and inconsistent. You also add Pittsburgh to that who didnt even bother showing up to the game.. Those adjusted stats apply no actual context to the quality of a roster. Excluding Pittsburgh, Philly, Dallas, KC, Bal, Buf, Houston. The combined record of their opponents is 21-63. Adding in Pittsburgh, Philly and Dallas, they're opposing records are 43-83 Obviously the win column goes up when you consider Buffalo, KC, Houston, and Baliktore but again, they lost to 3/4 of those teams. The majority of their schedule, regardless of what the stats make YOU think, was weak as hell. I use “adjusted stats” because judging a team on raw PPG or Total Yards is flawed. It doesn’t take competition, field position, time of the game and things like that into context. While you keep screaming “weak schedule” I point out that DVOA adjusts for that and you ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Also I could give two craps about quality of roster, it’s about performance. If the dolphins defense was putting up these stats with no names I’d be saying the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, CP3MVP said: I use “adjusted stats” because judging a team on raw PPG or Total Yards is flawed. It doesn’t take competition, field position, time of the game and things like that into context. While you keep screaming “weak schedule” I point out that DVOA adjusts for that and you ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Also I could give two craps about quality of roster, it’s about performance. If the dolphins defense was putting up these stats with no names I’d be saying the same thing. I didn't even use stats other than team record. You say it's about performance OK when you are 1 in 13 I don't give a ship what your stats are. You are NOT performing well. When you're 3-11, your not performing well. When you're 5-9 you might be doing better than the guys they're 3-11 but you're not performing well. I have gone on record to say that I do think that the patriots have a good defense and I think that they are elite elements to it but the defense as a whole is not elite in my opinion. I'm also not saying that Gilmore does not deserve the defensive player of the year award I've never said that that I can remember I might have alluded to this thought process that I believe there are more deserving players but in general I think it's just really hard for defensive backs to win the award but it has happened and if one is going to win it this year it is going to be Gilmore. However defensive player of the year is an individual award. Hence I believe its Gilmore or Watt and the next guy is a mile away. Stats do not tell an entire story. And when you're record is as bad as those in the majority of NEs schedule chances are they're arent good teams, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyMouse07 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, wwhickok said: You can use adjusted stats all you want. I dont need adjusted stats to tell you that the Dolphins, Bengals, Browns, Jets, Redskins, Giants are all terrible teams and the Cowboys and Eagles are mediocre and inconsistent. You also add Pittsburgh to that who didnt even bother showing up to the game.. Those adjusted stats apply no actual context to the quality of a roster. Excluding Pittsburgh, Philly, Dallas, KC, Bal, Buf, Houston. The combined record of their opponents is 21-63. Adding in Pittsburgh, Philly and Dallas, they're opposing records are 43-83 Obviously the win column goes up when you consider Buffalo, KC, Houston, and Baliktore but again, they lost to 3/4 of those teams. The majority of their schedule, regardless of what the stats make YOU think, was weak as hell. LOL why exclude those 7. What if we exclude the Dolphins Bengals etc? You can't cherry pick your stats. Pats D has been really damn good and DVOA shows that. I'm not quite sure what to tell you if you're going to ignore the information for your narrative based argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, wwhickok said: I didn't even use stats other than team record. You say it's about performance OK when you are 1 in 13 I don't give a ship what your stats are. You are NOT performing well. When you're 3-11, your not performing well. When you're 5-9 you might be doing better than the guys they're 3-11 but you're not performing well. I have gone on record to say that I do think that the patriots have a good defense and I think that they are elite elements to it but the defense as a whole is not elite in my opinion. I'm also not saying that Gilmore does not deserve the defensive player of the year award I've never said that that I can remember I might have alluded to this thought process that I believe there are more deserving players but in general I think it's just really hard for defensive backs to win the award but it has happened and if one is going to win it this year it is going to be Gilmore. However defensive player of the year is an individual award. Hence I believe its Gilmore or Watt and the next guy is a mile away. Stats do not tell an entire story. And when you're record is as bad as those in the majority of NEs schedule chances are they're arent good teams, period. So basically ignore all the advanced/adjusted stats and go with your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I would give it to Gilmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split the Sticks Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: He’s been an animal and I believe he leads the league in interceptions now. But it takes historic seasons at CB to get that award, so I doubt Gilmore would be in high consideration like Watt or others. I have to agree, CB's just don't get this award. Figure maybe Watt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split the Sticks Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, wwhickok said: Its true. Gilmore is the best player on a above average defense. Those historical #s were built against an equally historically weak schedule. There are definitely elements of this defense that are really good and Gilmore is currently the best CB in the league, his defense has nothing to do with it. Having said that, imo its between him and Watt and the #3guy on the list ain't even close imo c'mon, wwhicock, you know better than that. If the Pats had a vulnerable CD to target, Gilmore would hardly get targeted unless he tripped on his shoelaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXsteeler Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 hours ago, CP3MVP said: Gilmore is the best player on a historically great defense. https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1206444616620396550 Only Defenses better 14 games in Are 91 Eagles, 02 Bucs, and 85 Bears What is DVOA? I noticed they ranked the 2008 Ravens over the 2008 Steelers using that metric. That years Ravens defense was great but the 08 Steelers defense was godly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 PATS NATION STAND THE HELL UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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