Travis Kelce vs George Kittle

[Forge]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:20 AM, Cheesehawk said:

I'd put Hunter Henry over Ertz. Waller may be ahead of Ertz as well now

perhaps in time, but I can't do that yet. Ertz's consistency still means something for me. Henry hasn't been able to consistently do it for a season yet with injuries, and Waller could be a one year wonder (he had never had 100 yards receiving in a single season before this year)

[SmittyBacall]

I don’t think there’s much of anything that separates them, to be honest. They have both clearly separated themselves from the pack, and are interchangeable in my opinion. Too often do we split hairs in these comps.

Depending on what your offense looks like, Kittle is probably the guy you want if you ask your TEs to line up inline and block. Kelce is probably a better fit as a move TE and a predominant receiver.

Edited December 25, 2019 by SmittyBacall

[Anc360]

22 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I don’t think there’s much of anything that separates them, to be honest. They have both clearly separated themselves from the pack, and are interchangeable in my opinion. Too often do we split hairs in these comps.

Depending on what your offense looks like, Kittle is probably the guy you want if you ask your TEs to line up inline and block. Kelce is probably a better fit as a move TE and a predominant receiver.

Pretty much this. Kittle is a better blocker and Kelce is a better route runner. You have to ask yourself what you value more in an offense- a guy who is better at opening up run lanes and pass protecting or a guy who dictates coverage and who opens things up for other receivers.

Though personally, as a Chiefs fan, I’m pretty confidently choosing Kelce. I’ve seen him thrive in a conservative offense with a conservative QB who too often neglected Kelce’s ability to get open downfield. Kittle, for instance, had more targets in 2018 than Kelce ever received in a season with Alex Smith. And many of Kelce’s targets were screens and shuffle passes designed to get the ball out of Alex Smith’s hands and into Kelce’s hands as fast as humanly possible. The Chiefs’ strategy with Alex Smith was to build a 2 score lead with a ball-control offense and rely on the defense to secure the win. When the Chiefs switched to Mahomes and that formula went out the door is when we really got to see Kelce’s true talent.

[Kirill]

Travis Kelce is vastly underrated as a blocker. Give me Kelce for his consistency and dominance alone.

[Chiefer]

1 hour ago, Kirill said:

Travis Kelce is vastly underrated as a blocker. Give me Kelce for his consistency and dominance alone.

Can’t deny 4 1000 yards seasons in a row 

No TE has done that in NFL history

[Melbourne 9er]

3 hours ago, Anc360 said:

Pretty much this. Kittle is a better blocker and Kelce is a better route runner. You have to ask yourself what you value more in an offense- a guy who is better at opening up run lanes and pass protecting or a guy who dictates coverage and who opens things up for other receivers.

Though personally, as a Chiefs fan, I’m pretty confidently choosing Kelce. I’ve seen him thrive in a conservative offense with a conservative QB who too often neglected Kelce’s ability to get open downfield. Kittle, for instance, had more targets in 2018 than Kelce ever received in a season with Alex Smith. And many of Kelce’s targets were screens and shuffle passes designed to get the ball out of Alex Smith’s hands and into Kelce’s hands as fast as humanly possible. The Chiefs’ strategy with Alex Smith was to build a 2 score lead with a ball-control offense and rely on the defense to secure the win. When the Chiefs switched to Mahomes and that formula went out the door is when we really got to see Kelce’s true talent.

Kittle's yardage record in 2018 was with a small amount of Garropolo, a fair bit of CJ Beathard and the rest with Nick Mullens. Stop your Alex Smith whining. Then he has Mahomes. Kelce has always had better QBs than Kittle.

[Kirill]

31 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Can’t deny 4 1000 yards seasons in a row 

No TE has done that in NFL history

Kelce's breaking history and still losing this poll in a landslide. The disrespect is unreal.

[Forge]

3 hours ago, Anc360 said:

Pretty much this. Kittle is a better blocker and Kelce is a better route runner. You have to ask yourself what you value more in an offense- a guy who is better at opening up run lanes and pass protecting or a guy who dictates coverage and who opens things up for other receivers.

 

You say this as though Kittle doesn't do those things in the receiving game. Teams will even put corners on Kittle now. When teams are putting one of their starting corners on your tight ends, I don't know how that is not opening things up for your other receivers. 

3 hours ago, Anc360 said:

Kittle, for instance, had more targets in 2018 than Kelce ever received in a season with Alex Smith.

Sure, from a bulk number perspective, this is accurate. Though Kelce also rested week 17 that last year with Alex Smith, and the difference between 2017 Kelce and 2018 Kittle with regards to targets was all of 14. Kelce averaged about 8.13 targets a game that season. Kittle averaged 8.5. Their actual respective target shares weren't that far off - Kelce was at 24% in 2017 with Smith, Kittle a little over 25% in 2018. Had Kelce played that final game, it would have been even closer with regards to their bulk targets and the difference largely negligible. 

4 hours ago, Anc360 said:

I’ve seen him thrive in a conservative offense with a conservative QB who too often neglected Kelce’s ability to get open downfield. And many of Kelce’s targets were screens and shuffle passes designed to get the ball out of Alex Smith’s hands and into Kelce’s hands as fast as humanly possible

Funny story, his average depth of target in 2017 with Smith was higher than either of his years with Mahomes thus far. In 2017, Kelce's average depth of target was 10.5 yards. With Mahomes over the last two years, it has been 9.5 and 9.4 yards. Before 2017 it was much lower, of course, but yeah, that 2017 season with Smith was his best season with regards to getting passes deeper down field. 

Kelce's yards per reception also haven't budged much under Mahomes in comparison to smith. 12.9 / 12.2 / 13.2 / 12.5 under smith compared to 13.0 / 12.8 with Mahomes. 

4 hours ago, Anc360 said:

When the Chiefs switched to Mahomes and that formula went out the door is when we really got to see Kelce’s true talent.

Did we though? Because some of these numbers are awfully similar. I mean, your offense is just better and more efficient all around than it was previously (and throwing the ball more), which would account for improved yardage totals and the like. He had a slight uptick in target percentage last year, but it has gone back to end of days Alex Smith era level this year (slightly less than 24%, in line with 2017 and Smith's final year). 

But let's get to the real  flaw in your argument. You're basically saying that having Mahomes took Kelce to another level and unlocked what was there. Fine. Yet you're doing this without acknowledging that kittle doesn't have Mahomes. Do you see the problem here? You're attributing some of Kelce's greatness to having Mahomes rather than Smith, yet Kittle last year had CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens for nearly 80% of his games. This year he has Jimmy G, who is a fine quarterback, but is definitely, most certainly not Mahomes. So what kind of talent does Kittle have hiding in there that we would discover if he had Mahomes as his quarterback when he's doing what he's doing now? Kittle's average depth of target, for instance, is in line with what Kelce was getting from Alex Smith pre 2017.  

Of course, it doesn't really work that way, but if that is the narrative sword you're going to swing, it most certainly cuts both ways. 

[Forge]

3 hours ago, Kirill said:

Travis Kelce is vastly underrated as a blocker. Give me Kelce for his consistency and dominance alone.

It's okay, Kittle is being vastly underrated for what he does as a receiver in this thread. Far too much emphasis going on about his blocking, which is admittedly great, but marginalizes how great he actually is in the passing game as well. 

[nayad]

Kelce was the best TE in the league in 2016 and 2018. But its pretty clear now that Kittle is the best TE on any offense in football. Both are greats and amazingly durable. Kelce is now 30 and played so consistent I hope Kittle can match that, but as far as who's "the guy" its Stone Cold Kittle

[Split the Sticks]

Gotta go Kittle. Both great, Kittle slightly younger, better IMO

[Ataal]

I'll admit, Kittle is my homer pick, but I'd take either one of them any day of the week.  They're 1.a and 1.b in my book and they're completely interchangeable.  

[HolmesPriest]

Kelce, 4 1,000 yard seasons in a row lol, 

[Dub_City30]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:22 AM, HolmesPriest said:

Kelce, 4 1,000 yard seasons in a row 

....

Edited December 31, 2019 by Dub_City30

[Edge]

^^ In addition to that i think he's the only TE ever having 2x 1200 yards back to back seasons.

Edit: We all can be blessed to witness the likes of Kelce and Kittle. And Gronk before them.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Edge