.Buzz Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, pwny said: I literally referred to that in my post. “until it drove a mega-star away and he still didn’t really do a thing of value.” Did Shad Khan meet with any of these players who filed grievances against the team at a rate 1,200% higher than the average of the rest of the league?No. Not once? Did he step in when Doug Marrone had a press conference telling everyone that the team had completely repaired all relations with Leonard Fournette only to see Fournette file a grievance against the team literally 80 minutes later? No. He only stepped in when it was a world class superstar that was upset and voiced displeasure. Two first round picks had an issue with Coughlin and actually filed grievances against the team because of him, but Shad didn’t do anything until it was arguably the best player at his position that had a problem. And even after Shad stepped in, what good did it do? Coughlin didn’t get fired. Ramsey clearly didn’t trust that things were going to be better. You can say whatever you want about Jalen, but that hurts the team’s image. And Doug Marrone clearly got pissed off with how Coughlin handled the situation even after the meeting between Shad and Ramsey. Even after that, there was a blow up between Doug and Coughlin where Coughlin told Marrone he wasn’t allowed to play a player that was having more success playing because Coughlin didn’t want him to play. So what exactly did Shad do? He met with Ramsey and literally nothing changed. Big deal. And fun fact - Ramsey’s issue didn’t even result in a grievance against the team, so he literally doesn’t even count in this discussion of these grievances against the team. Let me repeat that again. The Jaguars have a grievance rate that is one thousand and two hundred percent higher than the rate of the other teams in the league and not a single thing was done by ownership about any of it. This isn’t the first time under Shad Khan’s ownership that someone in the organization has treated players like garbage. Mike Mularkey treated players like garbage. You know about all the crap with Mularkey, right? Quarterback’s coach Greg Olsen spread rumors about Blaine Gabbert to the media and sowed discourse that pitted players against one another, and then three years later they hired him back, gave him a raise and made him offensive coordinator just to watch him spread rumors about Blake Bortles to the media. So, yes. This string of grievances started when Shad Khan hired Tom Coughlin - who had clearly shown throughout his career that he wasn’t EVP type material - simply because Shad wanted a disciplinarian in the front office. But throughout his entire tenure, *******s have been brought in and allowed to do whatever they want to players, and some of them even get promotions out of it, while ownership sits idly by and does nothing. If you think players don’t see an ownership that has showed they don’t care how players are treated while the team racks up grievance after grievance (unless that player is Jalen Ramsey, and even then nothing changes), not sure what to say. Work what into their contract, exactly? These players won grievances against the NFL because the Jaguars violated the CBA. The collective part of a collective bargaining agreement means that it applies to all contracts. These violations by the Jaguars are literally already in the contracts and the Jaguars didn’t care. What are they going to put in the contracts? Are they going to add a “Please don’t violate this contract, pretty please” clause? Is that going to make the players believe that the Jaguars will stop violating the terms contracts? Or are you suggesting that the Jaguars are now in a position that they may need to hand over a huge negotiating block in future CBAs and jeopardize the entire league’s monopoly over player control just to get a contract signed? Because no team is going to allow players to void contracts due to CBA infractions. Do you remember Terrence Knighton? Do you remember how he turned down a 2 year/$8Mil contract (with no income tax) with the Jags to take 2 year/$4M deal with Denver solely because he hated Mike Mularkey and that it didn’t matter that Mularkey and his entire staff as well as the guy who hired Mularkey no longer worked there? He took half as much money to play for a guy he knew he liked rather than risk playing for a team that would hire Mike Mularkey. Or how about how ARob took less take home money to play for the Bears because he didn’t want to deal with Coughlin anymore? Players aren’t going to stick around while they feel like they’re being treated poorly, and they’re not going to go to places where other players tell them things aren’t great. And they’re not just going to trust that ownership that has shown time and time again that they don’t care is suddenly going to make sure things don’t go to hell. Not going to spend 20 minutes to reply to every point. I'm not saying Khan or the organization as a whole doesn't have issues that need to be fixed, but the whole "good luck getting anyone to come there" is definitely overblown. Couldnit be affected on a player here or there for a short time period? Very possible. This organization has been one of the biggest players in FA every year even with everything you're suggesting, including Calais Campbell openly wanting to come here because of Coughlin. Khan literally said when he hired Coughlin he did this so he doesn't have to worry about anything regarding football operations. Khan surely has a ton of blame, but he made it clear Coughlin would run everything football related and every decision would be made through him and he'd be hands off. If the entire regime is shown the door, which it certainly looks like, then idk why any player would assume anything like that would be an issue. Going back to a player saying he disliked a HC that was a coach here at one point means little. You act like players and coaches don't get into spats all the time. The first impression Mularkey even got from Knighton who consistently battled with weight issues was that bar fight he got into where he almost lost sight in his eye at a night club one time that caused him to miss months over the off-season. Not to mention Knighton openly said he really wanted to play for a winner and the Jaguars were in a dark hole and he wanted a SB. Regardless, if the regime is kicked to the curb and a new one is brought in I don't expect much issue. Worst case, it's a process that takes a year or two to improve the image of, but given our situation Id expect an approach that doesn't focus on FA as much anyway. Edited December 17, 2019 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, .Buzz said: This organization has been one of the biggest players in FA every year even with everything you're suggesting, including Calais Campbell openly wanting to come here because of Coughlin. Campbell signed with the team when there had been zero grievances filed against Coughlin with the team, so I’m not sure how him signing is relevant at all to the view that players have now that the NFLPA literally warmed players against coming here. Quote Khan literally said when he hired Coughlin he did this so he doesn't have to worry about anything regarding football operations. Khan surely has a ton of blame, but he made it clear Coughlin would run everything football related and every decision would be made through him and he'd be hands off. Khan wanted a disciplinarian that he could let do whatever he wanted, watched that disciplinarian rack up grievance after grievance and you think that’s not going to reflect poorly on the type of structure he’s trying to build? Quote If the entire regime is shown the door, which it certainly looks like, then idk why any player would assume anything like that would be an issue. Going back to a player saying he disliked a HC that was a coach here at one point means little. You don’t see any reason that it would be an issue if we fire everyone, but literally an example of how everyone was fired and a player still didn’t want anything to do with the team means nothing? It’s literally an exact example of what you’re claiming there won’t be any possibility of happening. Quote The first impression Mularkey even got from Knighton who consistently battled with weight issues was that bar fight he got into where he almost lost sight in his eye at a night club one time that caused him to miss months over the off-season 1. Knighton had his weight under control the entire time Malarkey was here and for 6 months before that. 2. Knighton didn’t *get into* a bar fight. He got hit over the back of his head with a beer bottle after breaking up a fight. He literally picked someone off of another dude, tried calming that guy down and had his back turned to the second guy, got hit with a bottle in the back of his head, security stopped the second guy from doing anything more and then Knighton walked out of the club and waited for an ambulance. This story was verified by every witness there. Trying to spin Knighton into an overweight dude that gets into bar fights is a complete bad faith argument. Quote Worst case, it's a process that takes a year or two to improve the image of, So I’m clear, you are now saying that exactly what I said would happen could happen, and yet you’re arguing with me over this because....? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, pwny said: Campbell signed with the team when there had been zero grievances filed against Coughlin with the team, so I’m not sure how him signing is relevant at all to the view that players have now that the NFLPA literally warmed players against coming here. Khan wanted a disciplinarian that he could let do whatever he wanted, watched that disciplinarian rack up grievance after grievance and you think that’s not going to reflect poorly on the type of structure he’s trying to build? You don’t see any reason that it would be an issue if we fire everyone, but literally an example of how everyone was fired and a player still didn’t want anything to do with the team means nothing? It’s literally an exact example of what you’re claiming there won’t be any possibility of happening. 1. Knighton had his weight under control the entire time Malarkey was here and for 6 months before that. 2. Knighton didn’t *get into* a bar fight. He got hit over the back of his head with a beer bottle after breaking up a fight. He literally picked someone off of another dude, tried calming that guy down and had his back turned to the second guy, got hit with a bottle in the back of his head, security stopped the second guy from doing anything more and then Knighton walked out of the club and waited for an ambulance. This story was verified by every witness there. Trying to spin Knighton into an overweight dude that gets into bar fights is a complete bad faith argument. So I’m clear, you are now saying that exactly what I said would happen could happen, and yet you’re arguing with me over this because....? The first point is exactly what I'm getting at and the reason I have zero idea why you're bringing up Mularkey or anything pre-Coughlin. This is a Coughlin and only a Coughlin issue. No EVP or sane person that gets this job is going to do what Coughlin di and cause confusion amongst players on who is in charge, the EVP or the coach, like it sits currently. As long as everyone is shown the door, I see it as unlikely it hinders much. Back to Knighton: https://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/27/broncos-terrance-knighton-enjoys-finally-playing-for-a-winning-team-2/ Unless I'm missing something here he lost all that weight that following season and leading into the next season with Denver with the strength and conditioning coach for Denver. He also cites that clearly they got off to a bad foot, so who knows what happened with that besides those two? Finally, I'm arguing because your post acted as if players are flocking out when literally it's just been Jalen. If we kept Tom and continued down this path I'd agree with you, but why would players inside the organization flock out if they fire the exact issue? I don't even see how you think that's going to happen either...Fournette who got that exact treatment from Tom just said yesterday he wants to be a Jaguar lifer, and Yan has said he wants to be here too but needs to get long term security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzane Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, pwny said: Love to see the NFLPA warm players about playing for my favorite team because they’re literally the worst run team in the league. And Khan watched this happen to player after player and didn’t do a damn thing about it until it drove a mega-star away and he still didn’t really do a thing of value. So the idea that simply getting rid of Coughlin will make players forget about all of this is laughable. It’s going to take years for the next GM to gain back player trust again, and in the mean time players will continue to flock out of Jacksonville. "Campbell signed with the team when there had been zero grievances filed against Coughlin with the team, so I’m not sure how him signing is relevant at all to the view that players have now that the NFLPA literally warmed players against coming here" What does "warming" players involve? Especially if the NFLPA "literally" warms them? Edited December 17, 2019 by bzane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, .Buzz said: The first point is exactly what I'm getting at and the reason I have zero idea why you're bringing up Mularkey or anything pre-Coughlin. Because it establishes a pattern that ownership doesn’t care how players are treated and won’t step in when things go really bad. Quote No EVP or sane person that gets this job is going to do what Coughlin di and cause confusion amongst players on who is in charge, the EVP or the coach, like it sits currently. Sure. We can agree that it would take another nutcase to behave like Coughlin. But after ownership has shown that when they hire these types, they just let them do whatever they want and even sometimes hire them back, why would any player take that risk when they have options with the 31 other teams that haven’t had four different instances of coaches (one that was rehired after he did all of that!) and management treating players like trash? Why would you immediately trust that this is the time the Jaguars have decided they won’t throw players under the bus, just immediately after things were so bad that the NFLPA warned players against coming here because the rate of grievances filed is one thousand and two hundred percent higher than the rest of the league? Quote Back to Knighton: https://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/27/broncos-terrance-knighton-enjoys-finally-playing-for-a-winning-team-2/ Unless I'm missing something here he lost all that weight that following season and leading into the next season with Denver with the strength and conditioning coach for Denver. The Knighton saga that year was fun. If you’re not aware of what happened, I can see how you’d be confused. Basically, Gene Smith told Knighton to lose weight and that if he kept it off, he would get the contract he wanted. They saw that he played really strong at at 345lb but was way too slow, and at 330, he had a really good balance of speed and power. He finished out Del Rio’s last season at 330. For Mularkey’s year here, they targeted 315; hoping to see more advances in his speed and lateral quickness. So he came in at just under 315, super slim (for him) and got praises sung about how he looked and how fast he looked when doing the drills he was able to with his eye patched up. The season started and the team didn’t like his lack of power in the run game and Mularkey apparently asked him to bulk up again as quickly as possible to gain back some of the power. He got back up to ~330 again and finished the year playing really well, but obviously putting on 15lbs that quickly wasn’t exactly healthy. He apparently had a rough offseason with his weight and put on another 15; but to be clear this was after Mularkey was gone, so it clearly didn’t impact the opinion of him. Then he went to Denver where they did everything in that article, And got him to lose ~30lbs of fat and put on ~15lbs of muscle, getting him to a more muscular 330 which allowed him to have the strength in the run game but also gave him most of the speed the Jaguars were hunting for when they had him dip to 315. Quote He also cites that clearly they got off to a bad foot, so who knows what happened with that besides those two? Sure. But none of this explains what I’m trying to drive home here. After that season, Mularkey was gone. Gene Smith was gone. The strength and conditioning coaches that couldn’t figure out Knighton’s proper playing weight were gone. Gus Bradley was in and was known across the league as being incredibly player friendly. And yet Knighton took half as much money over the same number of years to go play for a guy that he trusted rather than stay where he had been. Why? If players go to where the money is, and simply getting rid of the problem coaches and management pieces gives the team a clean slate, why did Knighton walk away from the money? Quote Finally, I'm arguing because your post acted as if players are flocking out when literally it's just been Jalen. Sure, only Jalen. If we ignore that ARob has made it clear Coughlin is why he didn’t stay here, that Fowler wanted out (and even in the last 24 hours has had another comment about his treatment here), that Telvin (regardless of what kind of person we may find out he is) has hinted that Coughlin is partially responsible for why he walked away from football, that Marcedes Lewis met with Coughlin and then immediately asked for his release just a short while after restructuring his contract to help the team, or that Malik Jackson said the same thing happened to him that Fowler said happened. But sure, aside from those five guys we know publicly of and the several other players that are rumored to want out now - it’s literally just been Jalen that wanted out. Quote why would players inside the organization flock out if they fire the exact issue? See: Knighton Quote I don't even see how you think that's going to happen either...Fournette who got that exact treatment from Tom just said yesterday he wants to be a Jaguar lifer, and Yan has said he wants to be here too but needs to get long term security. Help me out here. How many times did Marcedes say he wanted to be a Jaguar lifer before he asked to be released? How many bad things did Fowler say about the organization before he was traded? Didn’t Jalen go ask for a contract extension after Coughlin chastised him this offseason? Players say what’s in their best interest, and it’s almost always in their best interest to tell everyone they’re happy and want to forever be on the team they’re on, even if they’re not. 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.Buzz Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, pwny said: Because it establishes a pattern that ownership doesn’t care how players are treated and won’t step in when things go really bad. Sure. We can agree that it would take another nutcase to behave like Coughlin. But after ownership has shown that when they hire these types, they just let them do whatever they want and even sometimes hire them back, why would any player take that risk when they have options with the 31 other teams that haven’t had four different instances of coaches (one that was rehired after he did all of that!) and management treating players like trash? Why would you immediately trust that this is the time the Jaguars have decided they won’t throw players under the bus, just immediately after things were so bad that the NFLPA warned players against coming here because the rate of grievances filed is one thousand and two hundred percent higher than the rest of the league? The Knighton saga that year was fun. If you’re not aware of what happened, I can see how you’d be confused. Basically, Gene Smith told Knighton to lose weight and that if he kept it off, he would get the contract he wanted. They saw that he played really strong at at 345lb but was way too slow, and at 330, he had a really good balance of speed and power. He finished out Del Rio’s last season at 330. For Mularkey’s year here, they targeted 315; hoping to see more advances in his speed and lateral quickness. So he came in at just under 315, super slim (for him) and got praises sung about how he looked and how fast he looked when doing the drills he was able to with his eye patched up. The season started and the team didn’t like his lack of power in the run game and Mularkey apparently asked him to bulk up again as quickly as possible to gain back some of the power. He got back up to ~330 again and finished the year playing really well, but obviously putting on 15lbs that quickly wasn’t exactly healthy. He apparently had a rough offseason with his weight and put on another 15; but to be clear this was after Mularkey was gone, so it clearly didn’t impact the opinion of him. Then he went to Denver where they did everything in that article, And got him to lose ~30lbs of fat and put on ~15lbs of muscle, getting him to a more muscular 330 which allowed him to have the strength in the run game but also gave him most of the speed the Jaguars were hunting for when they had him dip to 315. Sure. But none of this explains what I’m trying to drive home here. After that season, Mularkey was gone. Gene Smith was gone. The strength and conditioning coaches that couldn’t figure out Knighton’s proper playing weight were gone. Gus Bradley was in and was known across the league as being incredibly player friendly. And yet Knighton took half as much money over the same number of years to go play for a guy that he trusted rather than stay where he had been. Why? If players go to where the money is, and simply getting rid of the problem coaches and management pieces gives the team a clean slate, why did Knighton walk away from the money? Sure, only Jalen. If we ignore that ARob has made it clear Coughlin is why he didn’t stay here, that Fowler wanted out (and even in the last 24 hours has had another comment about his treatment here), that Telvin (regardless of what kind of person we may find out he is) has hinted that Coughlin is partially responsible for why he walked away from football, that Marcedes Lewis met with Coughlin and then immediately asked for his release just a short while after restructuring his contract to help the team, or that Malik Jackson said the same thing happened to him that Fowler said happened. But sure, aside from those five guys we know publicly of and the several other players that are rumored to want out now - it’s literally just been Jalen that wanted out. See: Knighton Help me out here. How many times did Marcedes say he wanted to be a Jaguar lifer before he asked to be released? How many bad things did Fowler say about the organization before he was traded? Didn’t Jalen go ask for a contract extension after Coughlin chastised him this offseason? Players say what’s in their best interest, and it’s almost always in their best interest to tell everyone they’re happy and want to forever be on the team they’re on, even if they’re not. 1) I mean sure, obviously he should have stepped in with Coughlin. But I disagree with the Mularkey one. Let your coach be the coach. You don't need to undermine your HC because one player was upset/didn't have a great relationship with the coach. I also don't find it surprising that Knighton, who again wanted to be on a winner, went to a situation where he was super comfortable with the coach and had a great relationship. I didn't remember the deep details of the whole Knighton/Gene/Mularkey weight details though. But still, I'm not really chalking that against Khan, personally. 2) ARob also made it clear he had zero interest in playing with Blake and wanted out of that whole thing. Lewis was upset about getting paid less than Sefarian-Jenkins and thought he deserved better given his long standing with the team. Malik said he wanted to be here and earn that whole contract but then got pissed off with the coaching staff and FO for benching him. 3) I'm fully blaming Tom for this whole thing, but I'm still not taking blame off Dante and Jalen. Dante had tons of reasons to let go of him and we clearly weren't resigning him. Jalen and his dad had a falling out and went about things the wrong way regardless. Why does Yan talk to us this off-season and try and hammer out a long term deal if he doesn't? He literally turned down a deal because it was a 3 yr and not a 5 yr deal. Why does Fournette have a 1-1 with Tom where he goes all in on him and says your gone if you don't get your stuff together then proceed to go to Wyoming, get in the best shape of his life, and work hiss *** off and become one of the teams biggest leaders? Both odd moves if they were "flocking to get out" if you ask me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, .Buzz said: 1) I mean sure, obviously he should have stepped in with Coughlin. But I disagree with the Mularkey one. Let your coach be the coach. You don't need to undermine your HC because one player was upset/didn't have a great relationship with the coach. I also don't find it surprising that Knighton, who again wanted to be on a winner, went to a situation where he was super comfortable with the coach and had a great relationship. I didn't remember the deep details of the whole Knighton/Gene/Mularkey weight details though. But still, I'm not really chalking that against Khan, personally. I’m not saying that an owner needs to undermine a coach. I’m saying Khan has a history of employing people who treat players like garbage and allowing them to do whatever they want. Whether or not Khan should have stepped in is wholly irrelevant to the fact that he has repeatedly employed player-unfriendly coaches and management. This isn’t just a “he hired Coughlin and it got out of control” situation. He watched what Mularkey did and how it tore up the team and then years later said “I want a guy like that only way worse running the entire football team.” This is a guy that employed Greg Olson, watched him throw the team’s quarterback under the bus and started infighting within players on the team and then okayed giving that exact same guy a bigger role three years later. Quote ARob also made it clear he had zero interest in playing with Blake and wanted out of that whole thing. Lewis was upset about getting paid less than Sefarian-Jenkins and thought he deserved better given his long standing with the team. Malik said he wanted to be here and earn that whole contract but then got pissed off with the coaching staff and FO for benching him I’m confused. Are you not getting how all of these are instances of players being treated poorly by Tom and wanting out? I’m confused what you’re trying to prove with this point? Quote 3) I'm fully blaming Tom for this whole thing, but I'm still not taking blame off Dante and Jalen. Dante had tons of reasons to let go of him and we clearly weren't resigning him. Jalen and his dad had a falling out and went about things the wrong way regardless. None of this excuses the players being treated like they were. And do you really think the Jaguars are the only team that has had to navigate players with imperfect personalities? A whole lot of teams don’t have former players trashing the entire organization after leaving. Quote Why does Yan talk to us this off-season and try and hammer out a long term deal if he doesn't? He literally turned down a deal because it was a 3 yr and not a 5 yr deal. Why did Jalen try to get a new contract? Why did Marcedes agree to a new contract? And that’s entirely speculative why the deal was turned down. Quote Why does Fournette have a 1-1 with Tom where he goes all in on him and says your gone if you don't get your stuff together then proceed to go to Wyoming, get in the best shape of his life, and work hiss *** off and become one of the teams biggest leaders? Fournette filed a grievance against the team 3 hours after that meeting. I don’t think it was as positive as you’re trying to paint it as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, pwny said: I’m not saying that an owner needs to undermine a coach. I’m saying Khan has a history of employing people who treat players like garbage and allowing them to do whatever they want. Whether or not Khan should have stepped in is wholly irrelevant to the fact that he has repeatedly employed player-unfriendly coaches and management. This isn’t just a “he hired Coughlin and it got out of control” situation. He watched what Mularkey did and how it tore up the team and then years later said “I want a guy like that only way worse running the entire football team.” This is a guy that employed Greg Olson, watched him throw the team’s quarterback under the bus and started infighting within players on the team and then okayed giving that exact same guy a bigger role three years later. I’m confused. Are you not getting how all of these are instances of players being treated poorly by Tom and wanting out? I’m confused what you’re trying to prove with this point? None of this excuses the players being treated like they were. And do you really think the Jaguars are the only team that has had to navigate players with imperfect personalities? A whole lot of teams don’t have former players trashing the entire organization after leaving. Why did Jalen try to get a new contract? Why did Marcedes agree to a new contract? And that’s entirely speculative why the deal was turned down. Fournette filed a grievance against the team 3 hours after that meeting. I don’t think it was as positive as you’re trying to paint it as. 1) Who else hated Mularkey besides Knighton? Gus Bradley and Marrone have largely been loved by most of the players since Mularkey. Not sure how you could've expected TC to be as vocal/close to the players as he has been. It's not something that ever happens. TC also was known to have piped down big time after a talk with Strahan years ago, but it evidently came right back to where he was. 2) I'm saying that your acting like it was solely Tom. Had they got their wish on $$, all would likely be here regardless of Tom. Him getting shown the door just enhances the issue likely being good once he's shown the door. 3) And a lot of teams also have greivences/disgruntled players. Even Boselli and Prisco said it last night. Acting as if these type of things don't happen plenty is shortsighted. The amount of times Tom is doing stupid things like this is what is alarming. 4) Exactly my point, if all wanted to be here how are they flocking out? As I said, they'll go where the money is. As far as Yan, I'm pretty sure that was definitely stated by people when Yan and his camp were negotiating with us. We wouldn't go long term and he wanted more long term security. We offered him right around the $20M he was seeking but wanted more long term security and felt he was worth what Lawrence and co. got. 5) Of course he did, no grown man likes to be talked to like that and I can't blame him. But why'd he do everything Tom asked of him and showed up with this leadership when he's never shown anything like this if he wanted to get out? This is ultimately a bleak picture until we get a more clear picture of who's gone (better be all of them) and who we replace them with. But as long as Tom is shown the door I'm not that worried about this long term. Football operations/whether we make the right hires and actually get the organization turned around? Gotta see that happen and until they do I'm not optimistic. This issue specifically? I think it'll be resolved sooner than later. Guess we'll see. Edited December 17, 2019 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Gotta be the best at something. Some teams have the best cheaters, best criminals but we get to be the biggest crap show of a FO bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Who else hated Mularkey besides Knighton? A whole lot of guys that got caught up in the roster purge when Dave took over. Quote Not sure how you could've expected TC to be as vocal/close to the players as he has been. It's not something that ever happens. Why is it always that a bunch of people on here always point out certain bad things will happen with the Jaguars, and then when it happens fans of the team flock out of the woodwork to tell everyone that no one could have ever foreseen this happening? This was a massive concern when we hired him and entire pages were devoted to arguing it, but now that it happened exactly as people said it would, we’re still here saying no one could have expected it? Quote 2) I'm saying that your acting like it was solely Tom. Had they got their wish on $$, all would likely be here regardless of Tom. Him getting shown the door just enhances the issue likely being good once he's shown the door. ... Marcedes got exactly the deal he agreed to. He’s gone. Telvin got exactly the deal he agreed to. He’s gone. ARob would have earned more actual money here. He’s gone. This isn’t about money, my dude. Quote 3) And a lot of teams also have greivences/disgruntled players. Even Boselli and Prisco said it last night. Acting as if these type of things don't happen plenty is shortsighted. The amount of times Tom is doing stupid things like this is what is alarming. Boselli has never said a single negative thing about anything this franchise has done in his entire life, so I really don’t care how he’s trying to spin the Jaguars as actually not having a problem. I’ve been waiting 8 years for the one player he said we were missing to be a dynasty in 2012. I’m still waiting for Luke Joeckel to prove that he’s actually the most dominant tackle Boselli has ever seen in practice. Yes, grievances happen. They happen in Jacksonville one thousand and two hundred percent more often than they do for any other team. So no, we’re not just going to write this off as “it happens plenty everywhere”. This isn’t a 5% or 30% increase or even 500% increase. This is a one thousand and two hundred percent increase over what is normal. You take any other team in the league and for every grievance they have, the Jaguars have twelve. You take the most dysfunctional team in the league (outside of the Jaguars) and for every one grievance they have, the Jaguars have 9. This isn’t normal, and it isn’t something you can say “it happens everywhere”. This is so abnormal that the NFLPA cautioned players against signing there. Quote 4) Exactly my point, if all wanted to be here how are they flocking out? As I said, they'll go where the money is. Are you now arguing that players that forced their way off the team didn’t want off the team? Quote As far as Yan, I'm pretty sure that was definitely stated by people when Yan and his camp were negotiating with us. We wouldn't go long term and he wanted more long term security. We offered him right around the $20M he was seeking but wanted more long term security and felt he was worth what Lawrence and co. got. It was all speculation. There were people speculating that he just wanted more money and others speculating that more years would get it done. No one has any idea what he wanted or if he was actually negotiating in good faith and not just doing what is right for his contract. Quote 5) Of course he did, no grown man likes to be talked to like that and I can't blame him. But why'd he do everything Tom asked of him and showed up with this leadership when he's never shown anything like this if he wanted to get out? Are you suggesting that the only reason Fournette would better himself is because he wants to stay with the team he’s on? He doesn’t have any other goals in life except to play for Tom Coughlin? Quote Gotta see that happen and until they do I'm not optimistic. So you’re not optimistic, but you think players who have their livelihood attached to where they sign will be? Interesting take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, pwny said: A whole lot of guys that got caught up in the roster purge when Dave took over. Why is it always that a bunch of people on here always point out certain bad things will happen with the Jaguars, and then when it happens fans of the team flock out of the woodwork to tell everyone that no one could have ever foreseen this happening? This was a massive concern when we hired him and entire pages were devoted to arguing it, but now that it happened exactly as people said it would, we’re still here saying no one could have expected it? ... Marcedes got exactly the deal he agreed to. He’s gone. Telvin got exactly the deal he agreed to. He’s gone. ARob would have earned more actual money here. He’s gone. This isn’t about money, my dude. Boselli has never said a single negative thing about anything this franchise has done in his entire life, so I really don’t care how he’s trying to spin the Jaguars as actually not having a problem. I’ve been waiting 8 years for the one player he said we were missing to be a dynasty in 2012. I’m still waiting for Luke Joeckel to prove that he’s actually the most dominant tackle Boselli has ever seen in practice. Yes, grievances happen. They happen in Jacksonville one thousand and two hundred percent more often than they do for any other team. So no, we’re not just going to write this off as “it happens plenty everywhere”. This isn’t a 5% or 30% increase or even 500% increase. This is a one thousand and two hundred percent increase over what is normal. You take any other team in the league and for every grievance they have, the Jaguars have twelve. You take the most dysfunctional team in the league (outside of the Jaguars) and for every one grievance they have, the Jaguars have 9. This isn’t normal, and it isn’t something you can say “it happens everywhere”. This is so abnormal that the NFLPA cautioned players against signing there. Are you now arguing that players that forced their way off the team didn’t want off the team? It was all speculation. There were people speculating that he just wanted more money and others speculating that more years would get it done. No one has any idea what he wanted or if he was actually negotiating in good faith and not just doing what is right for his contract. Are you suggesting that the only reason Fournette would better himself is because he wants to stay with the team he’s on? He doesn’t have any other goals in life except to play for Tom Coughlin? So you’re not optimistic, but you think players who have their livelihood attached to where they sign will be? Interesting take. Done with the back and forth. You have your views and spins on situations just like I do. Should've known going in this is how it'd be based on your posts about the Jaguars for the past 3 years (most deserved), but jeez man. May be time to step away from the team if you have this strong of hate up and down about every single thing about this team. Anyways, good day. Edited December 18, 2019 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Done with the back and forth. You have your views and spins on situations just like I do. Should've known going in this is how it'd be based on your posts about the Jaguars for the past 3 years (most deserved), but jeez man. May be time to step away from the team if you have this strong of hate up and down about every single thing about this team. Anyways, good day. Ah yes, the classic “you should stop being a fan if you don’t like how the team operates”. Why would anyone not be furious about nearly everything about a franchise so incompetent that they’re 50 games under .500 under Shad and have barely even played 100 total games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, pwny said: Ah yes, the classic “you should stop being a fan if you don’t like how the team operates”. Because that's what I said... You literally told me that you were at that point a couple years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, pwny said: Ah yes, the classic “you should stop being a fan if you don’t like how the team operates”. Why would anyone not be furious about nearly everything about a franchise so incompetent that they’re 50 games under .500 under Shad and have barely even played 100 total games? Again, when did I say they haven't been incompetent or anything that's currently going on is worth being happy or optimistic about? There's a difference between that and spinning every single situation/thing they do and posting books about it and firing at literally anyone that disagrees with your take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, .Buzz said: There's a difference between that and spinning every single situation/thing they do and posting books about it and firing at literally anyone that disagrees with your take. Passion is a bad thing. Got it. This is exactly why I - and a few others - don’t post in the Jaguars forum anymore. Dont worry, I won’t respond to you any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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