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LionArkie

New Regime question

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I keep hearing everyone say to get rid of this regime.  Who do you replace them with next year who will be available?  i don't like this regime.  I didn't like the hire of Patricia or Quinn at the time.  I didn't like the Rod Wood hire and vocalized it here. I haven't watched the lions play over the last couple of years due to the circle of losing and incompetence that keeps occurring.  So I have no dog in this fight.  I've completely given up on this team, management, and ownership.  With this being said, I think the Lions need to stay the course.  We had our best run with Wayne Fontes and that was due to keeping the same management in place over a period of time, or so I believe. However, Fontes kept messing with his coordinators and system he ran.  The Ravens have had both highs and lows, but only two coaches since 1999 and in that time won two super bowls. The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches since 1969 and six super bowls.  The San Francisco 49ers had 2 coaches from 1979 - 1996 and during this time had won 5 super bowls.  They have had 9 coaches since 1996 and won 0 super bowls.  Finally, the Patriots have had 1 coach since 2000 and won 5 super bowls and been in 9.  Do I think this regime is going to get us to a super bowl?  Absolutely not!  Do I think they might possibly get us into the playoffs?  Possibly, but only with time.  Do  I want to give them time?  I honestly don't know.  However, this overhaul carousel we go through every 3 years hasn't garnered anything yet. 

Everyone also points to Quinn firing Caldwell and saying it wasn't good enough and frankly, it wasn't.  However, when Quinn was hired in, I also remember him saying this rebuild was going to take a while and he didn't know how long that would be. I know everyone wants a super bowl, but I would like to see playoff births and division championships.  Can this regime do it?  I don't know, I was against it from the start and so far they haven't disappointed me in my initial thoughts.  However, if we fire everyone, and start over again, with this roster, I would go out there and say we will be terrible for another 3-5 years.  So I ask, who would you replace the current staff with who would get us results in the next 3 years? Who is the GM, who is the coach, who are the coordinators? What is your preference with what we do with this roster? What type of offense and defense do you want put in?  What style of game would you like to see in Detroit? What draft strategy would you use?

Edited by LionArkie

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I just want stable team. were lost without Stafford, 1 week our defense looks good, next week they stink. I don't think our offense is going be bad when Stafford is completely healthy. also I want us to make some trades. I would love to see us trade for a David Johnson or Brandin Cooks. maybe sign M peters in the off season. get someone to pair with Slay as a cb. and lets get this team healthy

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21 minutes ago, flyguy1609 said:

I just want stable team. were lost without Stafford, 1 week our defense looks good, next week they stink. I don't think our offense is going be bad when Stafford is completely healthy. also I want us to make some trades. I would love to see us trade for a David Johnson or Brandin Cooks. maybe sign M peters in the off season. get someone to pair with Slay as a cb. and lets get this team healthy

I love David Johnson’s talent, but I want a running back without injury issues.  I mean who was the last Lions running back that lasted more than a couple of seasons before fading away due to injury?  James Stewart maybe?  Cooks is a walking concussion, I’m surprised his still playing tbh.  Peters is intriguing, as he can be so good and yet be so bad and most likely will want to be paid.  That being said I don’t have any answers on what they should do, it seems no matter what they do it always seems backfire.  Before the season started I really thought with what they did in the offseason they would have a top 5 defensive line and a possibly a top 10 defense and here we are at what 31st?  I just don’t know anymore, but agree stability would be nice.

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Teams with stable management coaching regimes usually experience success on some level to justify keeping them.

I believe in stability but you need to have the right people in place. The teams you mention have likely HOF coaches. I think Pittsburg has the best blueprint and philosophy.

Detroit hired a NE executive with no GM experience. Then hired a coach from the same system with ZERO experience. Neither have proven they belong. Quinn fired a successful coach because he felt the team was better than the on field result. That statement combined with two years of regression is clear evidence of his incompetence.

You will get stability because no chance they get fired. The Lions always commit to incompetence and ride it all the way to the bottom. 

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33 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Teams with stable management coaching regimes usually experience success on some level to justify keeping them.

I believe in stability but you need to have the right people in place. The teams you mention have likely HOF coaches. I think Pittsburg has the best blueprint and philosophy.

Detroit hired a NE executive with no GM experience. Then hired a coach from the same system with ZERO experience. Neither have proven they belong. Quinn fired a successful coach because he felt the team was better than the on field result. That statement combined with two years of regression is clear evidence of his incompetence.

You will get stability because no chance they get fired. The Lions always commit to incompetence and ride it all the way to the bottom. 

I don't disagree with any of what you said. I especially agree with the Pittsburgh blueprint. This is why I didn't want the Lions to hire them in the first place, but alas, they are here in Detroit.  Although this is unknown, but I believe if Mike Tomlin comes to Detroit, he is not winning.  I do believe there is a lot more to it than stability, but I do believe it starts with stability.  So my question still stands, who would you replace them with if Patricia and Quinn were fired today that you believe would bring stability to Detroit?  If we cannot honestly say such and such person would right the ship, then I believe we should stay the course. Not because i  want to, but because I think making a change for the sake of making a change is not a good blue print.

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10 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I don't disagree with any of what you said. I especially agree with the Pittsburgh blueprint. This is why I didn't want the Lions to hire them in the first place, but alas, they are here in Detroit.  Although this is unknown, but I believe if Mike Tomlin comes to Detroit, he is not winning.  I do believe there is a lot more to it than stability, but I do believe it starts with stability.  So my question still stands, who would you replace them with if Patricia and Quinn were fired today that you believe would bring stability to Detroit?  If we cannot honestly say such and such person would right the ship, then I believe we should stay the course. Not because i  want to, but because I think making a change for the sake of making a change is not a good blue print.

In reality I can’t answer who I would bring in. You and I as fans don’t have access to enough meaningful, relevant information to offer a reasonable answer. 
 

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fair enough...but I'll go ahead and give it a shot.

If I were to change, this is what I would want.
A GM who has a reputation of getting to the playoffs or at least contending for the division year in year out. Who isn't a one trick pony like Bob Quin who states he only knows how to draft Patriot style players because that is all he has experience with.  An experienced HC who has playoff experience with an overachieving squad who has experience coaching different styles and can adapt to any roster given to him.  I wouldn't even mind a retread if he didn't do good as a HC the first time around, but went to the college ranks and did well.  I'm thinking of someone similar to Pete Carroll.  I personally think a team should embody its fan base.  Detroit is a blue collar town and should have a blue collar team.  The two Lions teams I enjoyed the most were the Bobby Ross and Jim Schwartz teams.  The defense was very physical in both those.  I want high value placed on the big uglies on the lines first and foremost.  then work my way out.  Lines, middle then outside would be my draft.  My first round picks would generally revolve around this.  They aren't sexy, but they make bad qb's look better and average running backs get more yards.  I believe in bpa to a degree, but I will never value a stud WR over a stud linemen.  And if I have the hogs from the old Redskins team, I would say I'd probably still draft another OL bpa over the wr bpa just so there isn't a drop off in production in the line.  My coaching staff would be where I'd apply innovation.  Once again, it would have to fit with the players we already have and be moldable over the years.

So no, as a fan I don't have enough information to make a decision on who to hire.  But this is what I would want.  I have no idea of what coaches would fit this bill.  I wouldn't want an Urban Meyer as he hasn't HC in the NFL.  He will be a first time HC bust, or so I believe if he comes to the NFL.  I wouldn't want a chip kelly as I believe he is too gimmicky.  So, I really don't know who would fit this criteria for HC or GM. But I know this, neither Quinn or Patricia fit this bill either.  And I would wait until I could start finding the people who could transition it and be patient and let the process unfold itself to bring the stability to the organization I want.

Edited by LionArkie

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2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Teams with stable management coaching regimes usually experience success on some level to justify keeping them.

I believe in stability but you need to have the right people in place. The teams you mention have likely HOF coaches. I think Pittsburg has the best blueprint and philosophy.

Detroit hired a NE executive with no GM experience. Then hired a coach from the same system with ZERO experience. Neither have proven they belong. Quinn fired a successful coach because he felt the team was better than the on field result. That statement combined with two years of regression is clear evidence of his incompetence.

You will get stability because no chance they get fired. The Lions always commit to incompetence and ride it all the way to the bottom. 

Martha Ford hired a firm at the league's recommendation to conduct a GM search. This collection of people came to the conclusion that Bob Quinn would be the best candidate to replace Mayhew. There are tons of guys who get into GM positions who haven't been GM's before. Quinn had worked through several levels within one of the most successful organizations in all of sports. His last gig in NE was Director of Pro Scouting, a senior level position. This wasn't a Freddie Kitchens-esque rise from area scout to GM. 

We're all in agreement that things haven't looked good so far. The book hasn't been written just yet. Total organizational turn-around's do take time. 

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20 hours ago, Michael1976 said:

I love David Johnson’s talent, but I want a running back without injury issues.  I mean who was the last Lions running back that lasted more than a couple of seasons before fading away due to injury?  James Stewart maybe?  Cooks is a walking concussion, I’m surprised his still playing tbh.  Peters is intriguing, as he can be so good and yet be so bad and most likely will want to be paid.  That being said I don’t have any answers on what they should do, it seems no matter what they do it always seems backfire.  Before the season started I really thought with what they did in the offseason they would have a top 5 defensive line and a possibly a top 10 defense and here we are at what 31st?  I just don’t know anymore, but agree stability would be nice.

I completely agree, Im saying if we brought in a David Johnson/Cooks it could be good pr move for the team & fan base. Peters I think we should look at but like you said hell want to be paid and prob will wind up staying in Balt. we just need to do something. watching our D give up big play after big play isn't fun. I know people wont want to hear this but a few years ago when the patriots spent FA money they went DB and got Gilmore. now he is prob 1-3 cb in the league and maybe front runner for D-mvp. I would love for us to keep Slay, have coleman round into form and get another top flight cb(Maybe Peters, Maybe Rhodes?) and work on the d-line and O-line in the draft and get a decent back up for Stafford he cant play forever

 

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On 12/18/2019 at 1:19 PM, flyguy1609 said:

I completely agree, Im saying if we brought in a David Johnson/Cooks it could be good pr move for the team & fan base. Peters I think we should look at but like you said hell want to be paid and prob will wind up staying in Balt. we just need to do something. watching our D give up big play after big play isn't fun. I know people wont want to hear this but a few years ago when the patriots spent FA money they went DB and got Gilmore. now he is prob 1-3 cb in the league and maybe front runner for D-mvp. I would love for us to keep Slay, have coleman round into form and get another top flight cb(Maybe Peters, Maybe Rhodes?) and work on the d-line and O-line in the draft and get a decent back up for Stafford he cant play forever

 

I see were you are coming from and agree.

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On 12/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, flyguy1609 said:

I just want stable team. were lost without Stafford, 1 week our defense looks good, next week they stink. I don't think our offense is going be bad when Stafford is completely healthy. also I want us to make some trades. I would love to see us trade for a David Johnson or Brandin Cooks. maybe sign M peters in the off season. get someone to pair with Slay as a cb. and lets get this team healthy

im sorry man but you know nothing about an offseason if thts what you think..Stafford is being outplayed by about 8 other guys that are in year 2 lmao...hes alwasy been a terrible leader...terrible audible maker...really just an overrated strong arm and thats it...literally all he is...no personality. no leadership... no brain...probably bouncing around his skull to much..but never thought he was good at Georgia. but at least I can enjoy some good teams and not waste an entire day watching a dumpster fire lmao..i feel bad for people who watch this team. sincerely. 

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On 2019-12-25 at 1:44 PM, NFL_Fan said:

im sorry man but you know nothing about an offseason if thts what you think..Stafford is being outplayed by about 8 other guys that are in year 2 lmao...hes alwasy been a terrible leader...terrible audible maker...really just an overrated strong arm and thats it...literally all he is...no personality. no leadership... no brain...probably bouncing around his skull to much..but never thought he was good at Georgia. but at least I can enjoy some good teams and not waste an entire day watching a dumpster fire lmao..i feel bad for people who watch this team. sincerely. 

Your points irrelevance has been proven by the teams performance without Stafford.

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It starts with the fans. 
 

I don’t believe the Fords have shown enough investment into the success of the program simply because any product they put on the field has provided enough profit.

Either boycott the team for their incompetence enough that the Fords are forced to put in a regime that shows actual change or make the Fords sell. 
 

To me the Lions ownership has shown a passive interest in the team. I’m not sure what new ownership should or would look like but this team has a truly dedicated fan vase and there is a reason for 50+ years of mediocrity at best.

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1 hour ago, TimeForChange said:

It starts with the fans. 
 

I don’t believe the Fords have shown enough investment into the success of the program simply because any product they put on the field has provided enough profit.

Either boycott the team for their incompetence enough that the Fords are forced to put in a regime that shows actual change or make the Fords sell. 
 

To me the Lions ownership has shown a passive interest in the team. I’m not sure what new ownership should or would look like but this team has a truly dedicated fan vase and there is a reason for 50+ years of mediocrity at best.

I agree entirely with this.  It is the ownership.  It doesn't matter who they bring in. This is why I haven't watched them for over two years.  This is why I don't think changing the front office and coaching staff matters.  The most we are ever going to be with the Fords is a wild card team.  The fans are going to go the games, the Fords aren't going to sell and they have children in place to take over when Martha dies.  Nothing is going to change.  So knowing this, I believe changing the staff every two - five years will be a mistake.  It will keep us from getting to the wild card, which as a Lions fan, is the pinnacle of success.  Do I want more? Absolutely.  Am I going to get it... well,  I haven't for the past 35 years.

Edited by LionArkie

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