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GDT Game 15: Here come the Lions

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2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

If we can beat the Raiders next week, Denver will have finished the season on a 4-1 run with Lock as the starter. That’s pretty good momentum; if Elway doesn’t get too cute and actually addresses the o-line in this year’s draft, we’ll be back in the discusssion next year. 

It's gotta be the trenches and a few more weapons for Lock, righr? And, in my opinion you can never have too many CBs.

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19 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

It's gotta be the trenches and a few more weapons for Lock, righr? And, in my opinion you can never have too many CBs.

Yes. For me, it’s O-line, another *legit* receiving weapon who can operate in the slot, interior d-line/quality depth, and CB. In that order. Also wouldn’t kill us to get a punter who doesn’t suck. 

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Hamilton had a good game today, showed he could have some chemistry with Lock going forward. Like Patrick too but still need that speedy, reliable #2

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So, watched the game until we were down 10-0, then spent the rest of the day cruising every crack house, meth lab and chop shop in my area trying to find my truck which was stolen Saturday AM. It really sucks. First time this year I've been able to watch an entire game and couldn't.

Anyway, I was watching Bolles from the snap on his "hold". Kind of a nothing. He owned his guy until Lock scrambled out of the pocket due to pressure from the right side.. That's more on Lock than Bolles. Simple to fix though, just communication. Rest of the game for Bolles? No sacks, no pressures (I don't think) and no penalties. Guys, he's playing clean ball and doing it well. He's really not our OL problem, more of a scapegoat at this point.

Had a guy fill in poorly for Risner and I didn't even get his name.

Can't fix Wilkinson though. He just can't play on the outside. No where near the quickness, hands or feet.

Focused what I could on Schlottman. The kids quick, good technique but just can't anchor. Not sure he ever can, just doesn't have the frame for it.

Injuries and illness made this a tough one to judge but quick thoughts.

Bolles, Risner  and McGovern are all penciled in as starters next year, Least of our OL worries and have the talent and ability to be a top 5-10, center to LT unit. Our right side though is a hot mess. Schlottman I think has a place as IOL backup.. McGovern isn't quick enough to handle A gap pressure without some pretty good OG play. We just don't have that on the right side OG or OT.

I'd love it if our first two picks this year were on the OL. Starting RG, RT.  Great time to complete a commitment on the OL. Not a better present to give Lock than that.

On the other side, Jones looks like he has a future. He plays bigger than he is and is really quick for a man that large. Purcell could be a great rotational guy. harris is probably gone but I like the aforementioned pair better than Harris anyway.

Almost an echo here but High picks on the DL would be nice also.

Nice to get another win. My fear of Lock getting beat to death is now gone. If we commit to a large OL upgrade this year Drew could play the game at a pretty high level.

I'm a Patrick fan, like the way he plays, That kid could just step up and be a very good #2 WR in this offense. His "targets to completions ratio" is really up there.

So that's about it. For the first time in decades I'm really pretty excited about this team. Really solid young guys on both side of the LOS you can build around. Kudos' to the coaching staff! They've really done a great job with our young talent.

 

 

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A few more thoughts. Just watched a pile of film. I love "in town" download speeds,

Anyway, Jake Rodgers played pretty well after they benched Wilkinson. I'll bet he starts against the Raiders and we've seen the last of Wilkinson. We also got a better look at Morris, filling in for Risner. He played okay.

Schlottmans worthy of a second look, He;s really active in the run game and seems his biggest issue is anchoring a bull rush.

I'd Still like two starters on the right side but Schlottman, Morris and Rodgers may be quality depth

 

Looks to me like Kuper and Munchak are doing their jobs pretty well.

Edited by AKRNA

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The Lions secondary is abysmal outside of Slay, so you have to take everything with a pinch of salt, but I am really excited about Drew Lock. The arm talent was always going to be there but I love the way he's developed the progression with his eyes.

Young QBs going through their reads from within the pocket is usually a very good indicator on how they will cope down the line so that is incredibly pleasing.

It seemed to me that Lock was under duress far more than 0 sacks would indicate so I will go back and look if I can on how I felt they played. It definitely felt better when Rodgers came in, but I don't know if we were chipping to help him.

Love the way the guys seem to be rallying around Drew. I think the Cutler comparisons from a personality standpoint are off; he's got swagger but he doesn't come across as arrogant in my opinion. Hopefully that doesn't change.

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1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

The Lions secondary is abysmal outside of Slay, so you have to take everything with a pinch of salt, but I am really excited about Drew Lock. The arm talent was always going to be there but I love the way he's developed the progression with his eyes.

Young QBs going through their reads from within the pocket is usually a very good indicator on how they will cope down the line so that is incredibly pleasing.

It seemed to me that Lock was under duress far more than 0 sacks would indicate so I will go back and look if I can on how I felt they played. It definitely felt better when Rodgers came in, but I don't know if we were chipping to help him.

Love the way the guys seem to be rallying around Drew. I think the Cutler comparisons from a personality standpoint are off; he's got swagger but he doesn't come across as arrogant in my opinion. Hopefully that doesn't change.

Through his first 4 games, Lock has completed 65% of his throws, has 6 td’s to 3 picks, and is taking less than a sack per game. That’s extremely encouraging; it tells me that the game isn’t too fast for him. He’ll only get better from here, and wait till he has an actual o-line to play behind. 

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12 hours ago, germ-x said:

Haha no he didn’t.  Not until the Lions were down and in a position where they had to pass did Miller show up today.  This isn’t new, just really noticeable today with him being blocked 1 on 1 for the majority of the game (the argument for his lack of production is he’s getting double teamed, Detroit didn’t do that).  By no means am I saying he’s trash, but he has not been a good football player this year and anyone thinking he has is doing so off nostalgia.

He had the flu yesterday

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I enjoyed watching the game yesterday. Lock impressed me, and having so many young pieces of the core on offense is very encouraging. It's nice having something to look forward to at the end of an offseason for once.

A few takeaways from this game + going into next offseason:

  • Lock is the guy. Hands down. Whether he becomes true QBOTF or not, they can at least rest easy going into this offseason with him under center and build an offense around him accordingly. He makes things happen with his legs and his arm, he's got a rifle, he's starting to run through progressions. 
  • McMahon needs to be fired as ST coach. As good as Diontae Spencer is, Wadman is awful, and KR/PR coverage has been dreadful for two years now. I would expect Denver takes a long look, including revisiting the punter situation.
  • Dremont Jones balled out yesterday, even on a sprained ankle. Interesting to see Vic throw a jab about health in there (seemed targeted potentially at Juwan James)
  • The right side of the OL is a disaster. Wilkinson got beaten like a drum. Rodgers was better, but that's not saying much in the current state of things. If James can mentally come back, it solves things, but Denver needs to address the OL this offseason in a big way.
  • We need more speed at WR in this offense. While DaeSean Hamilton finally had a slightly above average performance, he and Tim Patrick are good depth WRs, but they are not #2 WRs in the modern NFL. Denver needs to take a long look at CeeDee Lamb or Henry Ruggs- both of whom would elevate this offense immediately.
  • Fant needs more targets than what he got yesterday, IMO.
  • Denver should look at upgrading Royce Freeman. I am completely unimpressed by him. I wouldn't address the position any earlier than Round 3 or 4, but we need someone with a little more burst behind Lindsay. Kylin Hill/Ke'Shawn Vaughn come to mind. If we go later, I love Javon Leake from MD.
  • Very torn on Chris Harris. I know he's one of the best, but I can't help but be unimpressed by his play of late. I think it's somewhat obvious he's sandbagging a bit knowing he's got one opportunity this offseason for a decent sized paycheck. I am not sure Denver should pay him. I know that's a bit of a hot take, but I don't think he's a great scheme fit here, and I am not sure we should commit the money to him.
  • On the flipside, I would like to see Shelby Harris and Justin Simmons get paid. Harris has improved YoY for the last 3 years. Late bloomer, but deserves to be in Denver. Simmons- no brainer. Sign them both.
  • I've felt that Von is also sandbagging a bit this year. Maybe a bit of self-preservation. I don't think they'll trade him or anything, but I think he, like some of the other vets on the team, are saving their energy until this team is a contender.
  • Todd Davis impressed me this season overall. Definitely better than I've given him credit for. AJ next to him is a nice combo. I wouldn't be upset if they upgraded, but those two guys have brought some much needed toughness to ILB- I remember some years where there was next to none.
  • I want to see us bring Attaochu back. He's been a pleasant surprise and has actually contributed to the pass rush on this team. 

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4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

The Lions secondary is abysmal outside of Slay, so you have to take everything with a pinch of salt, but I am really excited about Drew Lock. The arm talent was always going to be there but I love the way he's developed the progression with his eyes.

Young QBs going through their reads from within the pocket is usually a very good indicator on how they will cope down the line so that is incredibly pleasing.

It seemed to me that Lock was under duress far more than 0 sacks would indicate so I will go back and look if I can on how I felt they played. It definitely felt better when Rodgers came in, but I don't know if we were chipping to help him.

Love the way the guys seem to be rallying around Drew. I think the Cutler comparisons from a personality standpoint are off; he's got swagger but he doesn't come across as arrogant in my opinion. Hopefully that doesn't change.

What really strikes me about Lock is that he is always kind of smiling and joking around at the line prior to taking the snap.  Am I crazy or has anyone else noticed this, because I don't recall any other qb doing this to the degree I see it from Lock.  What this conveys to me is clearly an abundance of confidence (at game 4 with limited reps) and more importantly that he is indeed having fun out there and I think this is only a positive contagion that spreads to everyone else around him.  Man, talk about swagger and positive attitude - got to love it.  And finally Hamilton is remembering how to catch a football but it may be to late for him here.

PS re Von Miller - lets not forget he has clearly been injured and in my mind should have been sitting versus playing in a few of these games!

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Got called into work (sigh) this weekend, so missed the game as a full sit-down-and-watch, other than when I could step away.   With holiday season, may not get a chance to rewatch until after Xmas, but a few thoughts:

-DET is brutally bad - remember, no Marvin Jones, no Stafford.   Same with their D, secondary other than Slay is awful, and no pass rush or run D.   It's a bottom 5 unit DVOA-wise in run D, pass D (both coverage and pass rush), and depleted on O.  Worst of all, it's also a team that's clearly giving up on a lost season (the whispers of the team not responding to Patricia do seem to bear out - as the game wore on, the lack of effort was really striking).    So while we gave our guys a pass for losing to KC given the talent differential and weather (and rightfully so), we probably can't get too high on what we saw vs. DET this week (the not-as-bad as worst game, not-as-good as best game principle).  I don't think it tells us anything about our WR corps TBH - I would be looking for a 2nd/3rd WR to upgrade, for sure Hamilton/Patrick likely stick (esp as both help on ST), but more as our 4th/5th guys. 

-The one standout area we need to address in the offseason coaching-wise is ST.  That's all coaching and preparation, and the one area where we are truly not even close to the rest of the team progress-wise.   I think the only reason Wadman survived the season was to keep continuity as a holder, and it was a lost season to begin with.  I'd be shocked if he returned for 2020.

-Having said the above about ST coaching, what I did like coaching-wise was that the O picked up its play in the 2H.  This is the 2nd time in 3 weeks that halftime adjustments either kept the O producing, or in this case, helped it get untracked, where we've failed to maintain production consistently all year long.  Sure, it could just be Lock, and yes, the talent difference and HFA certainly factors in, but why I'm most encouraged - this strongly suggests that OC Scangarello is learning to adjust in-game.  Other than the KC game, his biggest flaw in Year 1 was lack of in-game adjustment, as demonstrated by our 2H struggles.   If he's learning to adjust in-game, then props to him.  I noticed the play calls were very TE-heavy 1H, then moved away in the 2H.    Again, there was a big talent gap, but at least they found the right mismatches to exploit.

Really, this is the kind of game we should win - and we did.   I wouldn't get too far into changing the talent evaluations, but the hope we carried into KC shouldn't have diminished too much, nor should it rise too high - but most of all, the hope with Lock, and our coaching staff, is real.  It was real pre-KC, this just confirms it's still legit.  

Next week ought to be interesting - OAK somehow ran a 4-game parley to still stay alive, and still has another 4-game parley to make it in.  They'll be up for the game, and present a few more interesting matchup problems for us (although no Josh Jacobs certainly makes them easier to face).    

 

Edited by Broncofan

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The thing with Von is he’s paid to be one of the best defenders in football (3rd highest paid defensive player in the history of football) and he hasn’t even been close to that type of player from day 1 this season.

Now people can chalk it up to whatever reason they want, but the above is just a fact.   If you’ve been able to tune in and watch the 49ers, Bears, Steelers, hell even the Packers and see what Nick Bosa, Khalil Mack, TJ Watt, and Za’Darius Smith have been doing and how much they impact the game it’s pretty obvious that Von is not operating at that level, and frankly isn’t really even close to playing at the level of the names listed above.

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15 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Yes. For me, it’s O-line, another *legit* receiving weapon who can operate in the slot, interior d-line/quality depth, and CB. In that order. Also wouldn’t kill us to get a punter who doesn’t suck. 

4th round....

 

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Edited by AkronsWitness

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2 hours ago, germ-x said:

The thing with Von is he’s paid to be one of the best defenders in football (3rd highest paid defensive player in the history of football) and he hasn’t even been close to that type of player from day 1 this season.

Now people can chalk it up to whatever reason they want, but the above is just a fact.   If you’ve been able to tune in and watch the 49ers, Bears, Steelers, hell even the Packers and see what Nick Bosa, Khalil Mack, TJ Watt, and Za’Darius Smith have been doing and how much they impact the game it’s pretty obvious that Von is not operating at that level, and frankly isn’t really even close to playing at the level of the names listed above.

I think a lot of it has to do with Chubbs injury and the entire offense focusing on taking Miller away with doubles. His sack numbers are not where we are used to seeing--but I saw a tweet the other day that says Von is still in the top 3 or 4 in pressures/hurries. So hes still making a good impact, hes just not finishing a lot of them off with sacks.

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Just wanted to highlight the fact that we scored on 5 straight possessions after the PR TD (TD, FG, FG, TD, TD). The average drive length on those possessions was 62.6 yards. The last time our offense scored on 5 straight possessions was at the Texans. The time before that was Nov 9, 2014 at the Raiders (5 straight TD's). Other close ones were against the Packers in 2015 (5 scores in 6 possessions) and the Chargers in 2014 (5 TD's in 6 possessions).

I'm not going to act like Lock is a sure thing but we haven't had similar offensive streaks since PFM. If that's not encouraging, I don't know what is.

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