GDT Game 15: Here come the Lions

[germ-x]

2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Von's always had the switch. When it's on, I've never seen a more dominant edge rusher. But it's not always on. I wonder if that hasn't been a good thing at times, because he looked like he was shot out of a cannon damn near every play in that 2015 playoff run. We don't win that SB without Von and DeMarcus both at peak performance. 

It was just a couple years ago at camp he was running in on kickoff drills and beating everyone down the field to set an example for the young guys. But he's 30, settled down with a fiancee and they've lost a lot since. It's probably not quite the same fire. But I still view him as an impact player, and with a better offense + Chubb back I think he'll be in line for another double digit sack season. 

The 2015 playoff run from Von was unbelievable, honestly probably the best defensive effort from a single player I recall seeing over numerous games with the season on the line. 

As far as what I saw from him at TC this year, laziest player on the field.  Missed multiple practice reps because he was messing around. When he was on time for the rep didn’t put in any effort.  

As far as this year I was overly critical of Von, but that’s out of frustration.  He isn’t as bad as I made out to be, but I also don’t think he’s as close to Von from a few years ago as you and probably others think.  

Von a few years ago would’ve absolutely trashed Tyrell Crosby last week (the way Attaochu did on a few occasions).  Von from a few years ago doesn’t get numerous 1 vs 1 blocking assignments from TEs by design (hopefully Miller took that as a slap in the face).  Von from a few years ago goes through stretches where he’s damn near unblockable.  The impact plays just haven’t been there this year.

Now one could attribute a number of reasons for this and maybe it’s a combination.  Lack of effort, change in scheme, being doubled/chipped (though I don’t buy much into this, all the elite players get this treatment, not just Von Miller), and the other that doesn’t get talked about is that he’s losing a step.  Honestly I hope it’s effort/scheme change.  Another year in the system and the hype around Lock and the offense will have guys motivated for next year.  It’s inevitable that Von Miller has his physical traits begin to fade, just like anyone else.  What made Von special and separated him was his off the charts explosion.  When that starts to fade I think you end up with the Von we’ve seen this year.  A player that isn’t able to consistently dominate and provide a major impact in the result of a football game.  

[1234567]

45 minutes ago, germ-x said:

The 2015 playoff run from Von was unbelievable, honestly probably the best defensive effort from a single player I recall seeing over numerous games with the season on the line. 

As far as what I saw from him at TC this year, laziest player on the field.  Missed multiple practice reps because he was messing around. When he was on time for the rep didn’t put in any effort.  

As far as this year I was overly critical of Von, but that’s out of frustration.  He isn’t as bad as I made out to be, but I also don’t think he’s as close to Von from a few years ago as you and probably others think.  

Von a few years ago would’ve absolutely trashed Tyrell Crosby last week (the way Attaochu did on a few occasions).  Von from a few years ago doesn’t get numerous 1 vs 1 blocking assignments from TEs by design (hopefully Miller took that as a slap in the face).  Von from a few years ago goes through stretches where he’s damn near unblockable.  The impact plays just haven’t been there this year.

Now one could attribute a number of reasons for this and maybe it’s a combination.  Lack of effort, change in scheme, being doubled/chipped (though I don’t buy much into this, all the elite players get this treatment, not just Von Miller), and the other that doesn’t get talked about is that he’s losing a step.  Honestly I hope it’s effort/scheme change.  Another year in the system and the hype around Lock and the offense will have guys motivated for next year.  It’s inevitable that Von Miller has his physical traits begin to fade, just like anyone else.  What made Von special and separated him was his off the charts explosion.  When that starts to fade I think you end up with the Von we’ve seen this year.  A player that isn’t able to consistently dominate and provide a major impact in the result of a football game.  

Funny thing about losing a step; it can be a slow process that you don’t really notice, until one day you do. Go watch a highlight video of his 2012-2015 seasons and really take a look at the strength and speed that he routinely explodes off the snap with. Then go watch ANY of his games this year, even with Chubb. It’s a night and day difference across the board. He’s slower. He’s less athletic. He’s not as physically strong. Looks a little thicker now. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a great player, and at 30 I still think his biggest issue at this point is scheme and conditioning vs age. But unless he goes through a major mental reset this offseason, his 15 sack seasons are behind him. 

[AKRNA]

5 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Also, I jumped on Bolles for the holding call on Sunday. After that? Played basically a perfect game.

I don't think we can keep brushing this off. @AKRNA has been on this for a couple weeks now. Garett is playing very good football. 

Glad you watched him bud. I think that's only his second penalty in five weeks. Outside of that he's been playing pretty dominant football at LT.

He and Risner are developing a good chemistry also.

The fan base will always probably hate him but I'll bet the FO is licking their chops at the thought of Risner /Bolles on the left side next year. I know I would be.

[broncos67]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:23 PM, AKRNA said:

Glad you watched him bud. I think that's only his second penalty in five weeks. Outside of that he's been playing pretty dominant football at LT.

He and Risner are developing a good chemistry also.

The fan base will always probably hate him but I'll bet the FO is licking their chops at the thought of Risner /Bolles on the left side next year. I know I would be.

Make or break for Bolles next year because of the 5th year option decision. If he doesn't show improvement, he's gone. Like I said, Bolles has been very up and down through his career. Stretches of very good play followed by stretches of awful play. I don't blame Broncos fans for being skeptical- he still has a lot to prove to live up to where he was drafted. 

[germ-x]

9 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Make or break for Bolles next year because of the 5th year option decision. If he doesn't show improvement, he's gone. Like I said, Bolles has been very up and down through his career. Stretches of very good play followed by stretches of awful play. I don't blame Broncos fans for being skeptical- he still has a lot to prove to live up to where he was drafted. 

Nothing Bolles has done this season would prevent me from taking Thomas, Wirfs, or Wills if one of them is available at Denver’s pick.

Though, if Elway and Company do believe he’s turned a corner and the Bolles we see now is the one of the future then I’d argue they should be looking to extend him on a team friendly deal.  

[Joe_is_the_best]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:30 PM, 1234567 said:

Funny thing about losing a step; it can be a slow process that you don’t really notice, until one day you do. Go watch a highlight video of his 2012-2015 seasons and really take a look at the strength and speed that he routinely explodes off the snap with. Then go watch ANY of his games this year, even with Chubb. It’s a night and day difference across the board. He’s slower. He’s less athletic. He’s not as physically strong. Looks a little thicker now. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a great player, and at 30 I still think his biggest issue at this point is scheme and conditioning vs age. But unless he goes through a major mental reset this offseason, his 15 sack seasons are behind him. 

I think Von has declined physically, but I think scheme has something to do with it. Early in the season our pass rush was abysmal, which I attribute partly to being new in Fangio’s scheme. The proof for me is that in the first 3 weeks we had 0 sacks (with Chubb mind you), but since then we’ve averaged 3 sacks per game, which would be top 5. Von was shut out 3 games, but in 11 games since has 17 QB hits, 7 sacks & 10 TFL (Mack only has 8.5 sacks FWIW). Yes, a player like Von should not have 5 games with no hits, sacks or TFL, but a new scheme where Von was asked to do things like shallow zone or setting the edge has had an effect. But I think it’s absolutely fair to suggest Von is not playing as well as he could. I mean, he should have more sacks than Derek Wolfe.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Joe_is_the_best

[1234567]

6 hours ago, germ-x said:

Nothing Bolles has done this season would prevent me from taking Thomas, Wirfs, or Wills if one of them is available at Denver’s pick.

Though, if Elway and Company do believe he’s turned a corner and the Bolles we see now is the one of the future then I’d argue they should be looking to extend him on a team friendly deal.  

Not to mention we still need a right tackle who can actually stay on the field. Take one of those guys, and if Bolles works out at LT then great. We’ll have both tackles taken care of. Grab a center and move McGovern back to guard. Huge part of our offense’s problem solved. 

[germ-x]

31 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Not to mention we still need a right tackle who can actually stay on the field. Take one of those guys, and if Bolles works out at LT then great. We’ll have both tackles taken care of. Grab a center and move McGovern back to guard. Huge part of our offense’s problem solved. 

They’re stuck with James and if he’s healthy have to play him with that contract.  Denver can’t cut him because he’d be $19M in dead cap.  

Not saying it’s right and having a backup plan would be nice because James is regularly hurt, but if he’s healthy he’ll be on the field.

Edited December 26, 2019 by germ-x

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

They’re stuck with James and if he’s healthy have to play him with that contract.  Denver can’t cut him because he’d be $19M in dead cap.  

Not saying it’s right and having a backup plan would be nice because James is regularly hurt, but if he’s healthy he’ll be on the field.

James could be a very good swing OT. In todays NFL you need two LT caliber guys for both ends. No way would I rely on James as a starter. Draft the best OT available regardless.

[broncofan48]

26 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

James could be a very good swing OT. In todays NFL you need two LT caliber guys for both ends. No way would I rely on James as a starter. Draft the best OT available regardless.

They aren’t gonna pay him that money to be a swing tackle no way.  
While I agree OL needs upgraded not just starters but for depth, the money involved in James’ deal pretty much assures him of being a starting tackle provided he’s healthy.  Which is still a huge IF

[BroncoBruin]

58 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

James could be a very good swing OT. In todays NFL you need two LT caliber guys for both ends. No way would I rely on James as a starter. Draft the best OT available regardless.

The issue isn't his play, it's the injury history. If he's unavailable he's unavailable regardless, but he's good enough to start. 

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

The issue isn't his play, it's the injury history. If he's unavailable he's unavailable regardless, but he's good enough to start. 

Exactly.  I know as fans we don’t necessarily buy into this, but James is the 3rd highest paid RT in the history of football.  Denver is paying him $13M next year, $14M in 2021, and $16M in 2022.  He cannot be moved next year with his $19M cap hit.  Now 2021 it goes to $6M and 2022 $3M, those 2 years cutting him is feasible.  Back to the point though, Elway is not going to allow him to be a swing tackle with what he’s getting paid.  If he’s healthy James will be a starting OT for the Denver Broncos next season and he won’t even have to compete for that job.

[Cutler06]

3 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

They aren’t gonna pay him that money to be a swing tackle no way.  
While I agree OL needs upgraded not just starters but for depth, the money involved in James’ deal pretty much assures him of being a starting tackle provided he’s healthy.  Which is still a huge IF

Well, they're paying him one way or the other, just seems stupid they haven't put him on IR this season with the lack of PT so far.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Cutler06

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

The issue isn't his play, it's the injury history. If he's unavailable he's unavailable regardless, but he's good enough to start. 

But that's the issue bud. Sure, he's a very good RT when he plays. He just doesn't do that very often,

If Wirfs is available, take him. Just don't rely on James. He's been cleared to play by the Bronco's medical staff most of the season. Just not warrior enough to do the job,

It's mighty brutal stuff going on at the LOS. Takes a mighty brutal guy, I don't see that in James at all. We're stuck with the contract unless we trade him. IMO he has no future here, Take the loss, draft a brutal OT and look forward to 2021. Yeah, I get it. He'd be the highest paid OT on the bench by far. So, get over it and move on. He's not a player to build on.

 IMO, if personnel decisions are done properly we should be a very scary team by then.

Just my 2 cents,

 

[The Helicopter]

9 hours ago, AKRNA said:

But that's the issue bud. Sure, he's a very good RT when he plays. He just doesn't do that very often,

If Wirfs is available, take him. Just don't rely on James. He's been cleared to play by the Bronco's medical staff most of the season. Just not warrior enough to do the job,

It's mighty brutal stuff going on at the LOS. Takes a mighty brutal guy, I don't see that in James at all. We're stuck with the contract unless we trade him. IMO he has no future here, Take the loss, draft a brutal OT and look forward to 2021. Yeah, I get it. He'd be the highest paid OT on the bench by far. So, get over it and move on. He's not a player to build on.

 IMO, if personnel decisions are done properly we should be a very scary team by then.

Just my 2 cents,

 

I agree, we have two HUGE question marks at tackle and a young QBOTF. Having 3 starting caliber OT's is not a problem, it's extra resources for trade.