GDT Game 15: Here come the Lions

[MeloTuloMarsh]

Yeah this is a perfect example of the sunk cost fallacy with James. We owe him that money no matter what. He’s done nothing but prove he can’t be relied upon. So why try to rely on him moving forward?

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

19 hours ago, germ-x said:

They’re stuck with James and if he’s healthy have to play him with that contract.  Denver can’t cut him because he’d be $19M in dead cap.  

Not saying it’s right and having a backup plan would be nice because James is regularly hurt, but if he’s healthy he’ll be on the field.

You’re right that they are stuck with the contract, and the player, regardless. And his contract makes signing another big name free agent OT prohibitive. However I don’t think it dictates his presence in the field. I think the broncos will draft an OT the first 3 rounds and the best players will play. Would it be less than ideal to have the highest paid RT in nfl history be a backup? Sure. But it would be worse to have him starting aver a better player. 
 

maybe his knee heals up and he returns to his (at times) dominant self. That would be great, but can’t be relied upon.

[germ-x]

10 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

You’re right that they are stuck with the contract, and the player, regardless. And his contract makes signing another big name free agent OT prohibitive. However I don’t think it dictates his presence in the field. I think the broncos will draft an OT the first 3 rounds and the best players will play. Would it be less than ideal to have the highest paid RT in nfl history be a backup? Sure. But it would be worse to have him starting aver a better player. 
 

maybe his knee heals up and he returns to his (at times) dominant self. That would be great, but can’t be relied upon.

I don’t disagree, but just doesn’t seem to be Elway’s style.  He isn’t one to admit a mistake that quickly.  I really don’t see any scenario where James is not a starting OT for Denver next season if he’s healthy.  

[germ-x]

IMO, a lot is going to depend on what they think of Bolles.  I know Bolles has played better of late (he did this last season as well to finish out the year) but let’s not forget 5-6 weeks ago Fangio was talking about making a change at LT. 

It’s why he’d be an interesting player to extend this offseason if Elway and Company believed he’s turned the corner.  He’d be able to had at likely a bargain deal.  It’d be a risky move, but one that could pay dividends down the road.

Edited December 27, 2019 by germ-x

[BroncoBruin]

Bolles is credited with conceding 4 pressures in the last 6 games. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

If they think they can get Bolles’ head right they’ll keep him.

The guy has the physical skills to be a good, if not dominant, LT in this league. The problem is between the ears, he gets lazy and commits penalties, he doesn’t think and commits penalties, he lets opposing players get in this head and commits penalties, etc. He also, in the past years at least, was reported to have on multiple occasions turned his back and walked away when a coach was telling him something. If they can fix him mentally we might be okay there and I say that as someone who has been among his harsher critics since the day he was drafted. 

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

If they think they can get Bolles’ head right they’ll keep him.

The guy has the physical skills to be a good, if not dominant, LT in this league. The problem is between the ears, he gets lazy and commits penalties, he doesn’t think and commits penalties, he lets opposing players get in this head and commits penalties, etc. He also, in the past years at least, was reported to have on multiple occasions turned his back and walked away when a coach was telling him something. If they can fix him mentally we might be okay there and I say that as someone who has been among his harsher critics since the day he was drafted. 

Agreed.  Physically, the only knock is he’s a  bit undersized, everything else suggests he should be a quality OT in the NFL.

I will say, Bolles made similar progress at the end of last season going on a hot streak and looking like things had clicked. PFF had an article about it.  Then he came out this year and looked like he’d taken about 3 steps back.  

But if Elway and Company do believe it has clicked (and I hope it has helps fill a glaring void and allows Denver to draft a depth/developmental OT as opposed to a starter) it would make a TON of sense to extended him 3-4 years this offseason at $8-10M per season.  If Denver doesn’t and he has a good year (doesn’t even have to be great) he probably jumps to $12-$14M a season for his services. 

[AKRNA]

6 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Bolles is credited with conceding 4 pressures in the last 6 games. 

Thats pretty good isn't it?  Seems like no sacks either but I could be wrong. Also, only two penalties in that stretch. Probably only one if the refs aren't focusing on him.

So, that'd be something like 10 pressures, maybe a sack or two, and 5 penalties in a season. Isn't that pro-bowl type production?

If you haven't figured me out bud (but I know you have) you know I'll have some fun with this.

By the way, so should you!

Edited December 28, 2019 by AKRNA

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, germ-x said:

Agreed.  Physically, the only knock is he’s a  bit undersized, everything else suggests he should be a quality OT in the NFL.

I will say, Bolles made similar progress at the end of last season going on a hot streak and looking like things had clicked. PFF had an article about it.  Then he came out this year and looked like he’d taken about 3 steps back.  

But if Elway and Company do believe it has clicked (and I hope it has helps fill a glaring void and allows Denver to draft a depth/developmental OT as opposed to a starter) it would make a TON of sense to extended him 3-4 years this offseason at $8-10M per season.  If Denver doesn’t and he has a good year (doesn’t even have to be great) he probably jumps to $12-$14M a season for his services. 

So bud, I'm going to dispute a few things here, knowing that I value your opinion.

Personally, the "undersized thing" is way overplayed. Finding an OT in todays NFL that can handle 230 lb speed rushers and the next snap deal with a 320 lb fast DE is incredibly difficult. IMO the days of the 320+ OT's is over. Big guys can handle the bull rush better but find themselves blocking air with a speed rusher.

Bolles "similar progess" is also overstated. Like AAA likes to point out, he's a "meathead". Kid's no Rhodes scholar and has a really long learning curve.. In his recent interviews he's stated it's been really tough for him to:

A. Deal with lots of LG's

B. Learn new techniques every year with different OL coaches.

C. Learn new "O" concepts with a different scheme every year.

He's only had one other stretch of "good ball" in his career, that at the end of last year. His first with actual good OL coaches.

This one should continue. His technique is miles above what it was. He is learning! Specifics? Watch his sets, the kid is learning his opponent. He's engaging fast and his punches are really well timed and placed. Watch his feet, depth of drops, he's basically winning almost all his one vs one's in the first second. By the 3rd, 4th quarterguys are turning away from him. They've had enough. He beats the hell out of them.

He's got a lot more Zimmerman in him than Clady and I really like watching the "street fighters" on the OL. He is one.

As my father, a 97 yo OL fan, figures if " the kid decides to play OT rather than fight he could be special" . Talking to my dad the other night he's pretty sure Bolles has decided to play.

Just an aside, I know not many pay much attention to the OL. I'd say @BroncoBruin and @broncos_fan _from _uk have had the most conversations with me about that in the last decade plus so if you get a chance guys, weigh in

 

 

 

 

 

[Cutler06]

47 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

So bud, I'm going to dispute a few things here, knowing that I value your opinion.

Personally, the "undersized thing" is way overplayed. Finding an OT in todays NFL that can handle 230 lb speed rushers and the next snap deal with a 320 lb fast DE is incredibly difficult. IMO the days of the 320+ OT's is over. Big guys can handle the bull rush better but find themselves blocking air with a speed rusher.

Bolles "similar progess" is also overstated. Like AAA likes to point out, he's a "meathead". Kid's no Rhodes scholar and has a really long learning curve.. In his recent interviews he's stated it's been really tough for him to:

A. Deal with lots of LG's

B. Learn new techniques every year with different OL coaches.

C. Learn new "O" concepts with a different scheme every year.

He's only had one other stretch of "good ball" in his career, that at the end of last year. His first with actual good OL coaches.

This one should continue. His technique is miles above what it was. He is learning! Specifics? Watch his sets, the kid is learning his opponent. He's engaging fast and his punches are really well timed and placed. Watch his feet, depth of drops, he's basically winning almost all his one vs one's in the first second. By the 3rd, 4th quarterguys are turning away from him. They've had enough. He beats the hell out of them.

He's got a lot more Zimmerman in him than Clady and I really like watching the "street fighters" on the OL. He is one.

As my father, a 97 yo OL fan, figures if " the kid decides to play OT rather than fight he could be special" . Talking to my dad the other night he's pretty sure Bolles has decided to play.

Just an aside, I know not many pay much attention to the OL. I'd say @BroncoBruin and @broncos_fan _from _uk have had the most conversations with me about that in the last decade plus so if you get a chance guys, weigh in

 

 

 

 

 

Well, seems those 230lb speed rushers are becoming a thing of the past, most EDGE guys are 255lb+ nowadays

[AKRNA]

1 minute ago, Cutler06 said:

Well, seems those 230lb speed rushers are becoming a thing of the past, most EDGE guys are 255lb+ nowadays

And really really fast!

[Cutler06]

It’s the safeties that’s are 230lbs now !!

[AKRNA]

45 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

It’s the safeties that’s are 230lbs now !!

And they're incredibly fast! Good luck finding a 320+OT that can deal with that. Thats generational, like Nelson. A 350lb OG that moves like a guy 50 lbs lighter.

Still think we should've taken him.

[germ-x]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So bud, I'm going to dispute a few things here, knowing that I value your opinion.

Personally, the "undersized thing" is way overplayed. Finding an OT in todays NFL that can handle 230 lb speed rushers and the next snap deal with a 320 lb fast DE is incredibly difficult. IMO the days of the 320+ OT's is over. Big guys can handle the bull rush better but find themselves blocking air with a speed rusher.

Bolles "similar progess" is also overstated. Like AAA likes to point out, he's a "meathead". Kid's no Rhodes scholar and has a really long learning curve.. In his recent interviews he's stated it's been really tough for him to:

A. Deal with lots of LG's

B. Learn new techniques every year with different OL coaches.

C. Learn new "O" concepts with a different scheme every year.

He's only had one other stretch of "good ball" in his career, that at the end of last year. His first with actual good OL coaches.

This one should continue. His technique is miles above what it was. He is learning! Specifics? Watch his sets, the kid is learning his opponent. He's engaging fast and his punches are really well timed and placed. Watch his feet, depth of drops, he's basically winning almost all his one vs one's in the first second. By the 3rd, 4th quarterguys are turning away from him. They've had enough. He beats the hell out of them.

He's got a lot more Zimmerman in him than Clady and I really like watching the "street fighters" on the OL. He is one.

As my father, a 97 yo OL fan, figures if " the kid decides to play OT rather than fight he could be special" . Talking to my dad the other night he's pretty sure Bolles has decided to play.

Just an aside, I know not many pay much attention to the OL. I'd say @BroncoBruin and @broncos_fan _from _uk have had the most conversations with me about that in the last decade plus so if you get a chance guys, weigh in

 

 

 

 

 

I trust your OL evaluations more than anyone, but going to have to disagree (In a way) on a few things here.

1. Defensive players are getting bigger, faster, stronger.  There are 280 pound guys running 4.6 40s.  OLs will have to continue getting bigger, faster, stronger as well, the reason offensive lineman lose so bad in today’s NFL is they can’t keep up.  In the case of Bolles, however, he doesn’t really lose because he’s undersized.  He loses because he isn’t smart the majority of the time.

2. Bolles has had different OL coaches, but I think blaming this all on different staffs is an excuse.  The biggest problem preventing Bolles from being an at least capable/consistent OT is Bolles himself.  Just for examples, he’s committed holds this season on stretch plays away from him.  That has nothing to do with coaching/technique (he literally doesn’t have to block the guy) but is on Bolles not understanding football.  He’s completely tackled defenders and jumped up wondering why he was penalized.  Again, that’s on Bolles, it’s common sense you can’t wrap your arms around an opponent and take them to the ground.  He’s strung 2-3 penalties together on a single drive.  Again not coaching/technique, but a hot head who loses his cool when flagged. 

Bolles has the talent and IMO has had the coaching to be Denvers LT of the future.  I think it comes down to if Bolles is willing to get out of his own way to have that come to fruition.

[AKRNA]

8 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I trust your OL evaluations more than anyone, but going to have to disagree (In a way) on a few things here.

1. Defensive players are getting bigger, faster, stronger.  There are 280 pound guys running 4.6 40s.  OLs will have to continue getting bigger, faster, stronger as well, the reason offensive lineman lose so bad in today’s NFL is they can’t keep up.  In the case of Bolles, however, he doesn’t really lose because he’s undersized.  He loses because he isn’t smart the majority of the time.

2. Bolles has had different OL coaches, but I think blaming this all on different staffs is an excuse.  The biggest problem preventing Bolles from being an at least capable/consistent OT is Bolles himself.  Just for examples, he’s committed holds this season on stretch plays away from him.  That has nothing to do with coaching/technique (he literally doesn’t have to block the guy) but is on Bolles not understanding football.  He’s completely tackled defenders and jumped up wondering why he was penalized.  Again, that’s on Bolles, it’s common sense you can’t wrap your arms around an opponent and take them to the ground.  He’s strung 2-3 penalties together on a single drive.  Again not coaching/technique, but a hot head who loses his cool when flagged. 

Bolles has the talent and IMO has had the coaching to be Denvers LT of the future.  I think it comes down to if Bolles is willing to get out of his own way to have that come to fruition.

Can't disagree at all. Just sayin' the last 6 weeks he's someone we've never seen. Lets just see how that plays out. 

He's just fun to watch now. He's controlling his one on ones. Punching 'em into Risner, driving 'em way out, basically controlling his portion of the LOS. Right now he's one of the best LT's in the league.

Hard to fathom I know, but I've been watching kids like this for half a century and our left side could be great, not just good but Shell/Upshaw great. 

I'd been his greatest believer for two years, gave up on him after about four games this year but back on the bandwagon.He seems to be playing now with "controlled Violence" something Alex Gibbs used to preach. You've heard me use the expression " like to fight guys". That's the intangible a  guy needs to excel on the OL. That would be Garret.