Jump to content

Joe Burrow... Best QB Prospect since _______


brownie man

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Tua is still the better prospect if he's 100% healthy, and I'm actually a big Burrow believer/supporter, as he's got all of the intangibles in the world to go with solid accuracy. His arm strength is average, but with elite anticipation and ball placement, that won't really matter.

i don't think so. Tua is good, but he was never #1 overall pick good in my estimation. He's a nightmare when pressure comes at him. While he will every once in a while make a spectacular play in the face of a blitz, he tries to do way too much rather than make the quick simple throw/read. He's not very good at dealing with murky situations. Burrow is ELITE at it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BleedTheClock said:

i don't think so. Tua is good, but he was never #1 overall pick good in my estimation. He's a nightmare when pressure comes at him. While he will every once in a while make a spectacular play in the face of a blitz, he tries to do way too much rather than make the quick simple throw/read. He's not very good at dealing with murky situations. Burrow is ELITE at it.

This was my exact criticism of Baker Mayfield coming out...replace that almost exactly and that's what you have.

That said, per your point:

*While the bold is true, I still think that's the case for almost every young/college QB. If he can identify/figure it out presnap, I think it's a moot point and he'll be fine in that department, especially since:

*His ability to scan a whole field and get to a third/fourth WR is as good as I've seen in quite some time.

*His accuracy/ball placement is elite

*Assuming he's healthy, he's more than just a plus athlete that can beat you from inside or outside the pocket

*His huddle presence/intangibles are very high as well

If you like Burrow over Tua, you like the intangibles/elite anticipation and ability to see things presnap

If you like Tua, you like all of the above and are betting on his superior ceiling as a prospect (Age, arm strength, athleticism)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

TUA

 

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

*His ability to scan a whole field and get to a third/fourth WR is as good as I've seen in quite some time.

It helps when you have 12 years to throw the football and 4 SUPERSTAR WR's.

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

*His accuracy/ball placement is elite

I disagree. He has great deep ball accuracy, but he craps his pants on some of the easy underneath ones.

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

*Assuming he's healthy, he's more than just a plus athlete that can beat you from inside or outside the pocket

I agree.

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

*His huddle presence/intangibles are very high as well

I agree.

 

I don't think it's a huge difference, but Burrow is better IMO. If we needed a QB (we don't, stop overreacting people), I'd be happy with either one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

It helps when you have 12 years to throw the football and 4 SUPERSTAR WR's.

To be fair, you could make the same argument about having those WR's for Burrow.

5 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I disagree. He has great deep ball accuracy, but he craps his pants on some of the easy underneath ones.

We will agree to disagree here.

5 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I agree.

I agree.

I'd personally take the 2+ years of production and the higher ceiling, but I also like Burrow a lot.

5 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don't think it's a huge difference, but Burrow is better IMO. If we needed a QB (we don't, stop overreacting people), I'd be happy with either one.

...I'm glad you're confident about us not needing a QB. I'm giving Baker 2020, and if he has another 2019, I'm cutting bait and moving on next year. He's been THAT BAD this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

This was my exact criticism of Baker Mayfield coming out...replace that almost exactly and that's what you have.

That's weird. Baker was excellent at maneuvering the pocket and making off platform throws in college. My favorite part about his game was how he hung in the pocket and kept his eyes down the field amidst chaos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

That's weird. Baker was excellent at maneuvering the pocket and making off platform throws in college.

I argued and still do that he makes WAY TOO MANY off platform throws and that he relied too heavily on escaping the pocket instead of navigating it and keeping his eyes downfield (speaking of a guy who clearly benefited from a great OL and WR's/TE's galore with Hollywood, Lamb, and Andrews).

10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

My favorite part about his game was how he hung in the pocket and kept his eyes down the field amidst chaos.

I didn't see that at all. As a matter of fact, I really dinged him for that based upon the Georgia 2nd half alone. That was very apparent.

To each their own though buddy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BleedTheClock said:

Tua Tags has 4 legitimate 1st round picks at WR.

Burrow has nothing like that. I've never seen anything like Alabama's 4-headed monster at WR.

CeeDee

Hollywood

Andrews (TE)

...is pretty close. I was also a huge Andrews fan coming out, so maybe I'm biased there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Danger said:

I find it hard to believe you actually had both Mahomes and Lamar Jackson that high. This list reeks of revisionism.

Why? Because I don’t have the same class everyone else with the top 5 including Darnold, Baker, Rosen, Goff, & Jameis? 
 

If that was the case, Mariota wouldn’t be on the list.

 

I had Mahomes high due to the insane amount of NFL throws with the insane arm strength despite his footwork & pocket presence being all over the place. I didn’t care about the “Texas Tech QB” stigma or “Big 12 QBs can’t succeed” stigma. I was one of the few that had him over Watson & Trubiscuit by a good distance. If I had penny for every time I corrected someone saying he was just another Jay Cutler, I would own Japan. I never thought he was nearly as raw as the consensus thought he was. Easily the most exciting prospect since Luck until Kyler came onto the scene for me.

 

I always thought Lamar was Vick, but with actual way better throwing ability. The way he could flick his wrist quite easily while being a game changer with legs(while being smart with avoiding hits) made me latch onto him. You remember how folks said Josh Rosen carried a “garbage” UCLA to the best that he could? Lamar actually did that with Louisville & way better.

 

I was not nearly as high as the consensus on guys like the “most Pro-ready QB in his class” Josh Rosen, “gritty fiery competitor” in Baker Mayfield & other guys like Darnold, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, etc. Too many flaws & their ceilings weren’t as exciting to me like the 5 guys I’ve mentioned earlier.

I take an L on Mariota. I thought for sure he was going to be a star no matter where he went.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Tua Tags has 4 legitimate 1st round picks at WR.

Burrow has nothing like that. I've never seen anything like Alabama's 4-headed monster at WR.

Ja’Marr Chase is arguably better than those Bama WRs sans maybe Jeudy. Justin Jefferson is a Day 2 prospect & Terrace Marshall ain’t nothing to sneeze at either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose measuring Burrow as a prospect depends upon your prospect evaluation. If you're talking about what he is NOW, I'd say he's the best since at least Darnold. Though Murray was an elite QB prospect and better in evaluation in virtually every way except size, which was a concern for me. I'm going to pass on the mental aspect for both QBs because, while I believe Burrow is an incredibly smart QB, Murray was also a very smart QB playing in a simplistic offense. The size for Murray pushed him below Burrow as a prospect though. 

Burrow is comparable to Darnold as a prospect in that both are very good in a number of ways, and while Darnold had better escapability as a prospect, Burrow is less reckless with the football than a Darnold or Watson. Also, Darnold and Watson were both prospects that got hyped up during their first seasons as starters and very young. Athletically, though, I'd say Darnold and Watson are good prospect comps, as none of the three appear/appeared to have rocket arms going into the NFL. Though Watson has certainly improved his arm strength and lower body mechanics, leading to what looks like an additional ten to fifteen yards of range with the football. Also, none of the three had elite mobility. Watson has good mobility, and Darnold's is above average, but none of the three are elite in that regard.

Burrow still may be a better prospect than Darnold, with his production against elite competition, but he's definitely not as good as Mahomes as a prospect. I was SUPER high on Mahomes as a prospect and thought he was the only QB in 2017 worth the #1 overall pick. He already had incredible accuracy, out of this world arm strength, Matthew Stafford-type ability to make throws from all sorts of weird arm angles, and good scrambling ability. He played with swagger. With elite production, as well. He had all of the physical tools, all of the production, and the "it" factor. At the time, I had no idea why he wasn't rated higher as a prospect and I still don't.

Now, if you're factoring ceiling into Burrow as a prospect, and I certainly do with players that I evaluate (though it's weighted since players rarely hit their ceiling), then I'd say that Burrow is the best prospect since Josh Allen. Physically, Allen is probably the most talented QB in the league, and reports on his work ethic were through the roof. He flashed spectacular accuracy, but was inconsistent with it. How work ethic and athleticism, however, led me to rate him very highly because most of the time when elite athletic prospects don't hit it's due to either low football IQ or bad character. Allen ran a tough offense at Wyoming where he had to make reads and had success mentally. He wasn't a genius QB prospect, but work ethic usually leads to mental development, such as with Jared Goff, or if you want an extreme example, Tom Brady.

So, in summary, I think Burrow is the best prospect since Josh Allen, but if you aren't a "this guy could be so good" kind of person, then he's probably the best prospect since Darnold or Mahomes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'll see more information on these QB prospects as the Pre-Draft process really gets going and we get information from things like interviews and athletic testing numbers. Interviews are probably the most important part of the process to me when it comes to big-name prospects. Part of why many of us around here weren't as high on Kyler Murray.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I watch Joe Burrow the more I like him. I think Chad Pennington with a higher ceiling is a good comparison. Also random but I thought his Heisman speech was wonderful. His speech led to over $150k in donations to southeast Ohio food banks. 

I hope Cincy takes him and then drafts the best rated offensive lineman at 33. I really want to see Joe succeed. 

Cincy fans, how has Billy Price been? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...