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Karnage84

LIONS BRINGING PATRICIA AND QUINN BACK FOR 2020

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good call to bring them but they'll be on a short leash next year. may want to get a Ron Rivera type to run the Defense or something tho. id be all for brining back Jim Schwartz if Philly were to let him go.

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I'm still convinced that they only give them up until the trade deadline to show an upward trajectory before making the change. 

They aren't going to get Ron Rivera or Jim Schwartz to run the defense. It has to be someone that is philosophically aligned with Patricia and I would bet that Patricia is going to be more involved on calling the defense. 

This gives the team some stability over the next two weeks as opposed to wondering if they're dealing with a lame duck coach. Players still have to show they buy in over the next two weeks otherwise they'll be out of a job. 

It might not be the right thing. It could work out and Patricia could become the best Lions HC ever. It is still what should have been expected. So we'll see how it all shakes out. 

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17 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I don’t recall anyone thinking they would be fired, simply they should be fired.

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16 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm still convinced that they only give them up until the trade deadline to show an upward trajectory before making the change. 

They aren't going to get Ron Rivera or Jim Schwartz to run the defense. It has to be someone that is philosophically aligned with Patricia and I would bet that Patricia is going to be more involved on calling the defense. 

This gives the team some stability over the next two weeks as opposed to wondering if they're dealing with a lame duck coach. Players still have to show they buy in over the next two weeks otherwise they'll be out of a job. 

It might not be the right thing. It could work out and Patricia could become the best Lions HC ever. It is still what should have been expected. So we'll see how it all shakes out. 

There’s sufficient evidence that both Quinn and Patricia should be gone. If players haven’t bought in the next two weeks are immaterial. 
 

We all knew they would be back because the Lions have a long history of committing to incompetence. Next year the team will be 8-8 or thereabouts missing the playoffs but they will once again be kept on because the team showed improvement.

Different year same old song. 

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40 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

There’s sufficient evidence that both Quinn and Patricia should be gone. If players haven’t bought in the next two weeks are immaterial. 
 

We all knew they would be back because the Lions have a long history of committing to incompetence. Next year the team will be 8-8 or thereabouts missing the playoffs but they will once again be kept on because the team showed improvement.

Different year same old song. 

There is some mistruth to this. When people start throwing around "we should hire Ron Rivera" and media guys are talking about the Niners OC as a potential replacement for Patricia, it's because there is the expectation we could see a regime change. If people thought that Patricia and/or Quinn were secure in their jobs, they wouldn't waste the time talking about all of the guys that could be brought in to replace them. Firing guys every 1 - 2 years is also not a recipe for success. 

Things have been bad for a long time. We are all hungry for some level of success that we can be proud of. So far it looks like that is far off in the distance. I still think that regardless of things, it would have been a knee jerk reaction to fire them with the plethora of injuries to key guys amidst a wholesale roster change. There are only 3 guys that are leftover from the 2017 roster on defense - Jarrad Davis, Slay and A'Shawn. Nearly 3/4 of the entire starting defense has been swapped out. One would assume that things would get better with Patricia getting 'his guys' but it's obviously still a couple pieces away. 

What it all boils down to is: they're coming back like we expected them to be and like they should be. They'll get some time to show they're either on the right track or that the organization, yet again, has to tear it down to build it back up. 

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I have no confidence in them turning it around next year. Patricia seems lost, the team has gotten worse, and Quinn hasn't accomplished any of his goals. 

Most likely scenario seems to be Patricia and Quinn getting canned next year, which then starts a total rebuild and might even result in the team trading Stafford. We would have a new GM, new coach, new schemes, and probably a new QB. 

Ugh. 

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12 minutes ago, Lions017 said:

I have no confidence in them turning it around next year. Patricia seems lost, the team has gotten worse, and Quinn hasn't accomplished any of his goals. 

Most likely scenario seems to be Patricia and Quinn getting canned next year, which then starts a total rebuild and might even result in the team trading Stafford. We would have a new GM, new coach, new schemes, and probably a new QB. 

Ugh. 

You're 100% right, it could definitely go that way. It could also look like this years 49ers - add a couple new pieces to make the rest of one side of the ball (in both cases, an edge rusher and the defense) click; get injured QB back for season and make some moves towards a successful season for a team that people were talking about potentially firing their HC and ragging on the GM. 

I don't blame anyone for not having the confidence in the team. I'm hopeful that it goes that way but I'm not putting any money on it. I'm playing the Denver D and Drew Lock this week in fantasy playoffs because we all know how it's going to go. It is what it is. 

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On 2019-12-18 at 10:16 AM, Karnage84 said:

There is some mistruth to this. When people start throwing around "we should hire Ron Rivera" and media guys are talking about the Niners OC as a potential replacement for Patricia, it's because there is the expectation we could see a regime change. If people thought that Patricia and/or Quinn were secure in their jobs, they wouldn't waste the time talking about all of the guys that could be brought in to replace them. Firing guys every 1 - 2 years is also not a recipe for success. 

Things have been bad for a long time. We are all hungry for some level of success that we can be proud of. So far it looks like that is far off in the distance. I still think that regardless of things, it would have been a knee jerk reaction to fire them with the plethora of injuries to key guys amidst a wholesale roster change. There are only 3 guys that are leftover from the 2017 roster on defense - Jarrad Davis, Slay and A'Shawn. Nearly 3/4 of the entire starting defense has been swapped out. One would assume that things would get better with Patricia getting 'his guys' but it's obviously still a couple pieces away. 

What it all boils down to is: they're coming back like we expected them to be and like they should be. They'll get some time to show they're either on the right track or that the organization, yet again, has to tear it down to build it back up. 

There is no mis truth in my statement. What there appears to be is acceptance and excuses of an incompetent organization.

Quinn publicly stated he fired Caldwell because the team was more talented than the record indicated. Since that firing he brought in his own coach and has had two more drafts. The results are undeniable. The team has regressed each year and now they get another year. Quinn has been nothing but a failure which isn’t surprising as others who have hired ex Patriots coaches etc. have learned. 

The Lions are an incompetent organization from top to bottom. If they were a public corporation the entire executive and board would’ve been replaced by now. The stock price would be in the tank and the short sellers would be out in force.
A number of years ago, prior to the Mayhew hiring I pointed out that it seemed what was lacking was an organization performance evaluation model and I don’t think anything has changed. Year after year the Lions are a failure and the organization has proven unable to change.

60 plus years of failure. 60 plus years of allowing coaches and incompetent management another year. I don’t care about what the media says and anything originating from within the Lions organization is simply PR. They don’t have a clue.

All Quinn has done is churned the roster with the resulting three wins. If he had a team who he felt was better than 9-7, as he stated, he’s incompetent. As for injuries that’s a bogus argument. Have a look at when the injuries started piling up. I suspect there’s a group of players that see the futility and aren’t prepared to risk more serious injury for this regime. 

Given Quinn’s OWN STATEMENTS he’s proven he misjudged the talent on the team and misjudged Patricias ability. That alone is more than enough to fire him. 

Patricia has been a large disappointment. He’s unable to coach beyond his system with his players. His lack of scheme flexibility and the ability to coach to player strengths is absent. In addition he’s stubborn. He refuses to adapt and change which isn’t preferable in an NFL coach.

Firing guys isn’t a recipe for success but either is keeping staff who have demonstrated their incompetence. You don’t become successful by keeping under performing managers. The Lions continue to believe in individuals they brought in without experience in their positions. Without mentorship or successful in house procedures and methodology unqualified individuals will simply continue struggling.

Lets face it, the Lions haven’t  had a recipe for success since the 50’s and there are absolutely no signs these guys are competent. So ownership simply maintains the status quo. They allowed Quinn to fire the most successful coach in decades and have floundered ever since.

There are reasons the Lions are the most incompetent sports franchise in history but it seems that fixing the systemic problems and creating complete organizational change isn’t something ownership is even willing to look at. It’s not surprising given the Ford families incompetence in running their primary business which only changed when they brought in an executive that new how to change organizations.

The Lions are a pathetic organization with a pathetic won loss record over the past 65 years. The time for excuses, acceptance of failure, and waiting til next year is over. At least for me. 

 

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Good. Firing those two at this stage would be asinine.

Guys: it has only been two years. The only thing worse than losing is continuously changing the coaching/management staff based on emotion. We've already lost numerous draft picks by switching to Patricia's scheme: firing him now sets us back even more. We'd just ask a new coach to implement his scheme, just to give up on him after two underwhelming seasons.

Prior to Stafford's injury, this team was very good, despite struggles on the defensive side of the ball. Adding an elite prospect to this group is the exact improvement that could push us over the hump. We're in a position to do just that.

Thankfully, it appears that this staff has the common sense to know that the only difference between finishing 3-12-1 and finishing 6-9-1 is significant draft value. Just as there are no "moral" victories, there are no "moral" records. Drafting 3rd overall and drafting 12th overall is a significant difference.

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15 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Good. Firing those two at this stage would be asinine.

Guys: it has only been two years. The only thing worse than losing is continuously changing the coaching/management staff based on emotion. We've already lost numerous draft picks by switching to Patricia's scheme: firing him now sets us back even more. We'd just ask a new coach to implement his scheme, just to give up on him after two underwhelming seasons.

Prior to Stafford's injury, this team was very good, despite struggles on the defensive side of the ball. Adding an elite prospect to this group is the exact improvement that could push us over the hump. We're in a position to do just that.

Thankfully, it appears that this staff has the common sense to know that the only difference between finishing 3-12-1 and finishing 6-9-1 is significant draft value. Just as there are no "moral" victories, there are no "moral" records. Drafting 3rd overall and drafting 12th overall is a significant difference.

TL, it's been four years of BQ. That's a large enough sample size considering the current state of the franchise. Continuing with BQ and Patricia only to find out we need to replace them next season will set us back even further than the wasted picks we've already used. That's an extra year of gearing up for a new regime's philosophy than if we waited until next year. Patricia and BQ haven't lived up the the standards BQ himself set. Caldwell was fired for having winning seasons. According to BQ, the Lions were in a position to contend at that time. We were told Patricia was being brought in to immediately get us over the hump. Not that this was a move for 3 or more years down the road. Caldwell was fired for having as many wins in a season as Patricia has in almost two seasons, and Patricia and BQ get to keep their jobs. That's asinine. 

Prior to Stafford's injury the Lions were 3-4-1. If that's your bar for "very good" your viewpoint of keep this regime around longer almost makes sense. We heard this defense was an elite talent away last season, then they added Flowers (who they certainly paid like an elite talent), and they somehow regressed. They traded away a very good safety, who was a captain and a leader in the locker room, for peanuts. While they were still in the playoff picture. The secondary was performing as well as could be hoped in the absence of a pass rush until that move. Now what was the one semi strength of the defense is just another weakness. It also looks like they've alienated there best defensive player in Slay, who knows if they will need to replace him too.

The funny thing is, I don't think this staff has the common sense you're bragging about. They are still trying to win, they just aren't capable of doing so. 

Merry Christmas TL. Stay safe.

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Meh. Quinn switched to Patricia after two years, which required another roster overhaul. We knew this would happen when Patricia was hired. Only those against the Patricia hire from the start have any rationale to complain about the roster right now. (We can also go back and forth about Quinn's draft choices, but he has had enough hits to earn a passing grade, IMO.)

The 3-4-1 record was clearly deceiving, as a last second loss to the Chiefs and that nonsense against the Packers had a huge hand in that. Considering the depleted defensive line, it's not overly surprising that our defense took a step back. And, for as much (deserved) criticism Patricia received for the defensive struggles during that span, he deserves as much credit for the success of the offense.

My argument is that this team wasn't ready to compete anyway, and the pieces are in place to actually grow a competitive roster. Instead of fighting for mediocrity and drafting 12-15, adding an elite 2-3 prospect and healthy Stafford to this team may be enough to see us make a playoff push as soon as next year.

Blowing it up - again - after only two seasons and inevitably drafting a QB 3rd overall, hoping he ever becomes what Stafford already is, isn't the right approach.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

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