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Karnage84

LIONS BRINGING PATRICIA AND QUINN BACK FOR 2020

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6 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

Nah, a whole season with the 31st ranked defense did it. We were under .500 with Stafford btw.

Going back and digging in someone's old posts, you realize, is the #1 way to show someone is getting under your skin with arguments you can't refute.

Huh? It took me no longer than 5 minutes. No digging needed... a quick search.

I love the complaining when one highlights another's inconsistencies. You were good with Patricia just months ago, believing that - without injuries - we'd be in the playoffs. We got hit by injuries, missed the playoffs, and now you believe Patricia is garbage. One can only sit back and laugh.

Pro tip: if you act out of emotion or irrationality, don't be surprised when someone points it out. (If the Lions win 10+ games next year, I'll likely reference the times that you related that it was some impossible feat. Because, well, it clearly isn't.)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Huh? It took me no longer than 5 minutes. No digging needed... a quick search.

I love the complaining when one highlights another's inconsistencies. You were good with Patricia just months ago, believing that - without injuries - we'd be in the playoffs. We got hit by injuries, missed the playoffs, and now you believe Patricia is garbage. One can only sit back and laugh.

Pro tip: if you act out of emotion or irrationality, don't be surprised when someone points it out. (If the Lions win 10+ games next year, I'll likely reference the times that you related that it was some impossible feat. Because, well, it clearly isn't.)

The defense got a little better during the season last year, and they added players, so I thought maybe they would continue to improve. I wasn't extremely happy with Patricia then but I thought they had done enough to get better. Instead they jumped off a bridge.

so now we've talked about what I said last year. Masterful attempt at deflecting from the issue at hand since your "what if they make the playoffs" thing failed. So now let's get back to it: you have no actual analysis or football-related arguments that Quinn and Patricia should still be employed by this team or that they will succeed next year, even at the nonsensical goal of "being a playoff contender," whatever that means. You have "what if a miracle occurs," "i'm afraid of change," and "you thought they would succeed in the past so now your observation that they are terrible is invalid." Not very persuasive so far.

Edited by Superduperman

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On 17 December 2019 at 9:23 PM, MortexLion said:

ITS VERY SAD NEWS

Serious question..... Why?

You have, arguably, the best QB in the division when he is healthy.

Your defense plays well enough to keep you in close games with chances to win.

could have swept the Packers this season.

Injuries were the doom of the Lions, not coaching. I saw a team that played every game with full effort until the final whistle the entire season. They need to learn how to finish.

Yes, as a Packers fan, I think that Stafford> Rodgers right now, maybe.

I think Detroits future is quite bright, good team.

The Vikings are decending, the Bears are the Bears.

The lions are a very good football team, stick with it!!!

 

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On 18 December 2019 at 3:18 PM, diehardlionfan said:

There’s sufficient evidence that both Quinn and Patricia should be gone. If players haven’t bought in the next two weeks are immaterial. 
 

We all knew they would be back because the Lions have a long history of committing to incompetence. Next year the team will be 8-8 or thereabouts missing the playoffs but they will once again be kept on because the team showed improvement.

Different year same old song. 

May I also commit to something?

The Lions will win 11 games next season with Patricia as HC. Maybe even win the division...

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7 hours ago, Superduperman said:

The defense got a little better during the season last year, and they added players, so I thought maybe they would continue to improve. I wasn't extremely happy with Patricia then but I thought they had done enough to get better. Instead they jumped off a bridge.

so now we've talked about what I said last year. Masterful attempt at deflecting from the issue at hand since your "what if they make the playoffs" thing failed. So now let's get back to it: you have no actual analysis or football-related arguments that Quinn and Patricia should still be employed by this team or that they will succeed next year, even at the nonsensical goal of "being a playoff contender," whatever that means. You have "what if a miracle occurs," "i'm afraid of change," and "you thought they would succeed in the past so now your observation that they are terrible is invalid." Not very persuasive so far.

My question didn't "fail". My question can't "fail". It's a question. On a discussion forum.

Sllim, the individual I initially directed the question towards, had the conviction in his opinion and the backbone to answer it. He told the truth: he thinks Patricia is a terrible coach, but he'd be proven wrong if they managed to win 10 games and/or make the playoffs. It wasn't difficult. Then again, Sllim is reasonable.

How can you pretend that I haven't made any football-related arguments as to why they could be successful next year? Seriously? I'll spell it out one more time: they have the 3rd overall pick, plenty of cap space and (presumably) a healthy Stafford. Each of those "football-related" elements will likely improve this team substantially.

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9 hours ago, Superduperman said:

The defense got a little better during the season last year, and they added players, so I thought maybe they would continue to improve. I wasn't extremely happy with Patricia then but I thought they had done enough to get better. Instead they jumped off a bridge.

so now we've talked about what I said last year. Masterful attempt at deflecting from the issue at hand since your "what if they make the playoffs" thing failed. So now let's get back to it: you have no actual analysis or football-related arguments that Quinn and Patricia should still be employed by this team or that they will succeed next year, even at the nonsensical goal of "being a playoff contender," whatever that means. You have "what if a miracle occurs," "i'm afraid of change," and "you thought they would succeed in the past so now your observation that they are terrible is invalid." Not very persuasive so far.

The Lions winning 10 games is not an impossible feat. It's not going to be easy but you're talking about it as if its a foregone conclusion that regardless of whatever they do it's never going to happen. For any reason. Under any circumstance. The Lions would have been 4-2-1 going into that Raiders game had the refs not given Green Bay a W. They openly acknowledged it was a mistake after the game. There's a very different perception about the team at that point. 

I think that we would have won the Raiders game if Stafford was fully healthy but let's just run with that one as a loss. 

There's at least 5 W's with a healthy Stafford - Bears, Redskins, Bears, Broncos, Packers. You could make the argument for the Cowboys game in there too. Those are all close games where our 4th Quarter Comeback King could be the difference maker in a W and a L. 

Even if we made the playoffs, with the way the defense was playing we were just as likely to be a one-and-done candidate. I also understand that the offense wasn't the issue on the team like the defense was. Stafford is still THAT much better than the Driskel's and the Bloughs to put the team on his back and get the W. 

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Great post Karnage, I agree.

Then, add to that the 3rd overall pick and a free agent or two. There's plenty of reason for this team to finish in the 10 win range.

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11 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Great post Karnage, I agree.

Then, add to that the 3rd overall pick and a free agent or two. There's plenty of reason for this team to finish in the 10 win range.

He needs to hit on those fronts tho.

Quinn has made some bad early round picks and you could argue that his top 3 signings last year look overpaid so far, especially James.

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14 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Great post Karnage, I agree.

Then, add to that the 3rd overall pick and a free agent or two. There's plenty of reason for this team to finish in the 10 win range.

I'm not suggesting that it's going to happen or anything (I hope it does). It just amazes me that there are guys talking about the Lions and a 10 win season never happening like it's a fact. In their opinion, which they're absolutely allowed to have and share, it's probably not happening. To discount any thought of it even being a remote possibility just seems like it's negativity for negativity's sake.

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Posted (edited)

I'm definitely on the keep Patricia bandwagon, only because I don't see them hiring anyone else out there who is going to turn this roster around and make it work.  I have no faith in them personally.  The only guy I saw doing this just got hired by Washington and I don't think he could work with the type of guys Quinn knows how to pick up.  I still think 10 wins next year is quite a stretch.  We are possibly losing 3 DTs on defense.  We could possibly lose slay.  Our LB play sucks and our 90 million DE is average at best , and it appears the DC is sticking around.  Our Qb is aging and he is one of the few reasons we win and what appears to be no plan to do anything about replacing him (I'm sure I'm wrong, but I'm just looking at what Quinn has done in the past).  I don't believe the 3rd pick is going to turn it on next year and make us a playoff team.  If we got lucky and got Chase Young, I fully expect it to take 2-3 years to develop him to become a difference maker, but would still be an upgrade over what we currently have. Same with a Corner such as Okudah.  I like Andrew Thomas, but he's going to make the offense better and not do a thing for the defense unless you count ball control as defense.  I think Patricia does not have a lot to work with on defense and that's on Quinn.  This next man up works in theory, but at the end of the day this regime alienates its players and has not brought in difference makers.  Until this changes, which will take time, I think 8-8 to 9-7 will be about as good as it gets unless we have a very weak schedule. I believe Patricia, at best, will be a completely average hc who will have to rely heavily on his coordinators.  I think the biggest issue with this team is that Quinn only knows the "Patriot Way" which is going to take a ton of time install and implement.  when you can only look at a mlb who is thick and fits certain spatial dimensions, you severely limit the talent you can pick up.  I just don't see this being a fast rebuild, which is what this is despite any press conference quote.

Edited by LionArkie

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1 hour ago, detroitroar said:

He needs to hit on those fronts tho.

Quinn has made some bad early round picks and you could argue that his top 3 signings last year look overpaid so far, especially James.

Absolutely. He definitely has to hit.

If Quinn is a 'good' GM, he has to hit with these picks/free agents. If Patricia is a 'good' coach, he has to be successful with that improved roster. I believe that this season will speak volumes about their abilities.

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9 hours ago, 66PinG said:

May I also commit to something?

The Lions will win 11 games next season with Patricia as HC. Maybe even win the division...

I certainly hope you’re correct.

Can I get a nickel if you’re wrong? Because if I had a nickel for every time someone predicted a successful season for the Lions and they flushed the season I would have allot of nickels.🤠

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5 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm not suggesting that it's going to happen or anything (I hope it does). It just amazes me that there are guys talking about the Lions and a 10 win season never happening like it's a fact. In their opinion, which they're absolutely allowed to have and share, it's probably not happening. To discount any thought of it even being a remote possibility just seems like it's negativity for negativity's sake.

No more so than those that continue to view the team through rose coloured glasses.

Each of us have opinions based on individual observations, beliefs etc. The Lions have a long history of failing so it shouldn’t be a surprise that with each passing year the doubters increase. 

Theres always a chance the Lions could have a great season just as it’s possible for them to go winless next year. 

Since 1962 the Lions have had 6 or 7 (I can’t remember exactly and I’m to lazy to look it up 🤠) seasons of 10 or more wins with the most being 12 which occurred once, I believe. 

The Lions will get injured players back, most notably Stafford. Other teams will also get injured players back.

Quinn has had 4 years yet the teams performance over those 4 years has gone in the wrong direction. With the upcoming draft and free agency period every team participates and I certainly don’t have faith that suddenly Quinn will outperform his counterparts. He certainly hasn’t improved the team when measured by on field performance. 

I get the optimism and hope. Over the last two seasons I’ve lost any belief the organization has a clue. I’m just not buying Quinn’s brand of manure any more. He canned the most successful coach they’ve had in my life and justified it with claims the team under achieved. 🙄 I had no problem with Caldwells firing but I sure have a problem with Quinn’s explanation and the subsequent results. In my view his comments leave no doubt in my mind that he can’t properly evaluate talent. 

It was all about bringing in his buddy regardless of the PR releases. They fire a bunch of position coaches and training staff etc. Funny how accountability works in the Lions organization. 
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/01/01/live-updates-bob-quinn-press-conference-jim-caldwell-

firing/109077264/

He has no credibility.

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2018/01/heres_how_bob_quinn_reached_th.html

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Haha now Pasqualoni and Davidson are out too, but they got to go a couple of days later and claim they were going to live on a farm with a nice family, lol. We're going to coach the damn Senior Bowl and our whole defensive staff just got whacked. Hoo boy.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm not suggesting that it's going to happen or anything (I hope it does). It just amazes me that there are guys talking about the Lions and a 10 win season never happening like it's a fact. In their opinion, which they're absolutely allowed to have and share, it's probably not happening. To discount any thought of it even being a remote possibility just seems like it's negativity for negativity's sake.

Or, you know, being realistic. As diehard said, 7 times in 58 years? That's a pretty solid body of evidence

Edited by Superduperman

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