? Week 2 GDT - Saints vs Patriots - Sunday 1pm EST

[Jlowe22]

5 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

You're nitpicking. They thought Cooks was replaceable, end of discussion on that front. This offense is clunky right now. I hope they prove me wrong but I'm seeing what I'm seeing and I'm seeing an offense that you guys are overrating and making excuses for. 

They thought this offense would be able to produce without Cooks, and they're probably right.  What they didn't plan on, was Snead getting suspended, two starting tackles going down immediately, and a run game consisting of Ingram, Peterson, and Kamara not being able to produce.  I'm also fairly sure that Payton is never planning on his own playcalling to be garbage,

I'm positive that they also planned on this defense being better than it was, evidenced by their really conservative gameplan to open the Vikings game.  It's been a terrible opening to the season, but lack of Cooks is the least of their worries.

This offense could still turn it around, and finish the season strong.  And if they don't, well, it doesn't matter because our defense is so bad we're never gonna make the playoffs anyway.  And I think Brees is leaving after this year if we miss the playoffs, and I don't blame him.  The next coach should still have a solid offense to work with(minus a QB), and some young guys on defense to develop.

 

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

lack of Cooks is the least of their worries.

This offense is hardly improved if we swap Ginn and Cooks right now.

Not with no tackles and Brees looking rusty as hell. In a few weeks when we get guys back and hopefully start clicking obviously Cooks is HUGE over Ginn, but it's not the difference right now. 

[gen. manager]

7 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

I was hoping for him and posting about how I wanted the Saints to draft him for MONTHS before the draft. He's my favorite OSU player (favorite college team) so him getting drafted by the Saints was like a dream come true. Other Saints fans congratulated me in the draft thread when we drafted him cause they knew how bad I wanted him. I'm not disrespecting him by saying he's replaceable. All but about a dozen or so guys in the league are replaceable, Cooks is not one of them.

 

Plenty of guys who are currently in the league have done this. You're proving my point. He's not a generational talent. 

 

I've never acted like Brees is some young gun. I haven't even commented on Brees other than saying he was good before Cooks. I've been begging the Saints to trade him the last two years because I know he's on the decline.

Please do some research before you tell me what I'm acting like. 

Plenty of guys? Name them and you'll prove my point. Oh and yeah I'll sit back and do research on you...when you just sat there and said Brees and Payton could get along without a guy that posted back to back 1,000 yard seasons. 

[gen. manager]

5 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

They thought this offense would be able to produce without Cooks, and they're probably right.  What they didn't plan on, was Snead getting suspended, two starting tackles going down immediately, and a run game consisting of Ingram, Peterson, and Kamara not being able to produce.  I'm also fairly sure that Payton is never planning on his own playcalling to be garbage,

I'm positive that they also planned on this defense being better than it was, evidenced by their really conservative gameplan to open the Vikings game.  It's been a terrible opening to the season, but lack of Cooks is the least of their worries.

This offense could still turn it around, and finish the season strong.  And if they don't, well, it doesn't matter because our defense is so bad we're never gonna make the playoffs anyway.  And I think Brees is leaving after this year if we miss the playoffs, and I don't blame him.  The next coach should still have a solid offense to work with(minus a QB), and some young guys on defense to develop.

 

So what was the offense's problem today?

[gen. manager]

6 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

This offense is hardly improved if we swap Ginn and Cooks right now.

Not with no tackles and Brees looking rusty as hell. In a few weeks when we get guys back and hopefully start clicking obviously Cooks is HUGE over Ginn, but it's not the difference right now. 

Hardly improved but Cooks is HUGE over Ginn..funny. 

[Dome]

9 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

Hardly improved but Cooks is HUGE over Ginn..funny. 

I'm starting to think you're not comprehending any of my arguments. 

Your replies rarely attack the root of my point, but focus on an aspect of it that is meaningless without the context you're ignoring.

 

[Jlowe22]

14 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

I think you're disrespecting a highly talented guy. They didn't draft this guy in the first round just because. Back to back 1,000 yard seasons. Brees is 38 YEARS OLD! He's not 30! This guy needs every weapon he can get! You act like he's some young gun. He's not Tom Brady. He can't make guys anymore. He's not that guy anymore. 

I don't think Brees is in his 2011 form anymore, but he may still be capable of elite production.  I mean, the guy threw 37 TDs and 5200 yards last year.  Too many picks, but picks happen, especially when your defense forces you to throw all game every game.

No one is saying he is as good as Brady, Brady is most likely the GOAT, but Brady is also in a much better situation than Brees.  His team went 3-1 without him last year.  When you watch a Patriots game, you don't see abysmal playcalling.  You see scrub guys wide open all by themselves with no one within ten yards.  I've seen it happen to many defenses, not just ours.  Also, I like the Patriots offensive strategy of utilizing the short game.  

It would be great to have Cooks around, but if he isn't happy here, we might as well trade him.  And all accounts pointed towards the fact that he wasn't happy here.  The presence or absence of Cooks isn't gonna turn this offense from elite to mediocre.  If we turn out to be mediocre this year, it will be because of a number of factors, including possibly an aging and declining Brees.

[gen. manager]

2 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

In starting to think you're not comprehending any of my arguments. 

Your replies rarely attack the root of my point, but focus on an aspect of it that is meaningless without the context you're ignoring.

 

In football, it's simple. The more weapons you have on offense to attack a defense with, the more they have to gameplan for specific players. Brandin Cooks, Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara and the others seem more dangerous to gameplay for than...Michael Thomas and whomever else they threw out there tonight. More weapons, more to gameplan for. Simple rule of football that you're obviously struggling with. 

[gen. manager]

4 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I don't think Brees is in his 2011 form anymore, but he may still be capable of elite production.  I mean, the guy threw 37 TDs and 5200 yards last year.  Too many picks, but picks happen, especially when your defense forces you to throw all game every game.

No one is saying he is as good as Brady, Brady is most likely the GOAT, but Brady is also in a much better situation than Brees.  His team went 3-1 without him last year.  When you watch a Patriots game, you don't see abysmal playcalling.  You see scrub guys wide open all by themselves with no one within ten yards.  I've seen it happen to many defenses, not just ours.  Also, I like the Patriots offensive strategy of utilizing the short game.  

It would be great to have Cooks around, but if he isn't happy here, we might as well trade him.  And all accounts pointed towards the fact that he wasn't happy here.  The presence or absence of Cooks isn't gonna turn this offense from elite to mediocre.  If we turn out to be mediocre this year, it will be because of a number of factors, including possibly an aging and declining Brees.

Drew Brees or Tom Brady can't play defense so whatever breakdowns they're having aren't their issue. The guy wasn't happy because he wasn't going to get paid, Saints never pay top dollar for receivers it seems. And an aging QB needs as many weapons as he can gets. You can't take away a guy's best targets and expect him not to drop off. That's common sense. You talked like Willie Snead was going to fix the problem. Is he better than Brandin Cooks? 

[Dome]

16 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

Plenty of guys? Name them and you'll prove my point. Oh and yeah I'll sit back and do research on you...when you just sat there and said Brees and Payton could get along without a guy that posted back to back 1,000 yard seasons. 

Off the top of my head? Non-generational talents with back to back 1k seasons?

Brandin Cooks
Demarious Thomas
Doug Baldwin
Jordy Nelson
Brandon Marshall
Victor Cruz
Jarvis Landry
Eric Decker
Alshon Jeffery
Emmanuel Sanders
Jeremy Maclin
Golden Tate
Vincent Jackson

I'm sure there's plenty I missed.

These guys are all replaceable, plenty of them are on their second or third team. They come and go. They're nice to have on your team, but they're a commodity. They're not irreplaceable. 
 

[Raves]

8 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

Drew Brees or Tom Brady can't play defense so whatever breakdowns they're having aren't their issue. The guy wasn't happy because he wasn't going to get paid, Saints never pay top dollar for receivers it seems. And an aging QB needs as many weapons as he can gets. You can't take away a guy's best targets and expect him not to drop off. That's common sense. You talked like Willie Snead was going to fix the problem. Is he better than Brandin Cooks? 

No but Thomas is better than Cooks.

[DjRay1985]

11 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

Drew Brees or Tom Brady can't play defense so whatever breakdowns they're having aren't their issue. The guy wasn't happy because he wasn't going to get paid, Saints never pay top dollar for receivers it seems. And an aging QB needs as many weapons as he can gets. You can't take away a guy's best targets and expect him not to drop off. That's common sense. You talked like Willie Snead was going to fix the problem. Is he better than Brandin Cooks? 

When has New Orleans ever needed to pay top dollar for receivers. Why would you ever play for top dollar receives and spend money on an offense when they have produced. Like all of a sudden out of thin air the Saints organization expects Brees to be mediocre now that he is 38. Brees best target was at one point Kenny Stills, Jimmy Graham, and Marques Colston. 

If im not mistaken, Thomas was Brees top target last season.

 

[Raves]

1 minute ago, domepatrol91 said:

Off the top of my head? Non-generational talents with back to back 1k seasons?

Brandin Cooks
Demarious Thomas
Doug Baldwin
Jordy Nelson
Brandon Marshall
Victor Cruz
Jarvis Landry
Eric Decker
Alshon Jeffery
Emmanuel Sanders
Jeremy Maclin
Golden Tate
Vincent Jackson

I'm sure there's plenty I missed.

These guys are all replaceable, plenty of them are on their second or third team. They come and go. They're nice to have on your team, but they're a commodity. They're not irreplaceable. 
 

Dont' forget Marcus Colston, though he's not currently in the league.

[Dome]

12 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

In football, it's simple. The more weapons you have on offense to attack a defense with, the more they have to gameplan for specific players. Brandin Cooks, Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara and the others seem more dangerous to gameplay for than...Michael Thomas and whomever else they threw out there tonight. More weapons, more to gameplan for. Simple rule of football that you're obviously struggling with. 

Hyperbole shouldn't be ignored. 

If Brees doesn't have time to throw and isn't accurate when he does, is Cooks what's gonna come in and make this team move the ball?

He had 2 catches today against the worst defense in the league with the best QB in the league throwing to him! What's he gonna do with Brees throwing jump ball ducks?

[Jlowe22]

3 minutes ago, gen. manager said:

Drew Brees or Tom Brady can't play defense so whatever breakdowns they're having aren't their issue. The guy wasn't happy because he wasn't going to get paid, Saints never pay top dollar for receivers it seems. And an aging QB needs as many weapons as he can gets. You can't take away a guy's best targets and expect him not to drop off. That's common sense. You talked like Willie Snead was going to fix the problem. Is he better than Brandin Cooks? 

I said Snead would help the problem, and he will.  Cooks would also help the problem, of course(assuming the lack of tackles doesn't destroy our QB).  That still leaves large issues with the o-line, the running game, and the playcalling.  Not to mention, the historically bad defense.  

Jimmy Graham and Kenny Stills would help the problem too.  But we can't realistically keep all those guys around.  It made sense to get rid of an unhappy receiver and focus on improving our team elsewhere.  I would have liked a higher draft pick, but I think Ramczyk was a great pick, and i think he'll be a great tackle.