tannenballs Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Is it easier for a QB to elevate replacement level OL or replacement level RB/WR/TE? Edited December 19, 2019 by tannenballs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I read the question wrong. For a young QB, definitely give me the better line and allow my young QB more time to go through progressions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 weapons a long enough time in the pocket and even medicre weapons get open 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozizaki Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 You can always scheme less talented receivers open and create running lanes using clever play design and scheme to counter the defense. You can, to a certain extent do the same thing for your O-Line, but it limits your playbook severely and even then players can lose match ups where they have a massive scheme advantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I'd take an elite offensive line + mediocre receivers than the other way around. Philly's offensive line play, for example, is why they are in the playoff hunt still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, Malfatron said: weapons a long enough time in the pocket and even medicre weapons get open Unless you're the Eagles WRs, but otherwise.... yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Elky said: I'd take an elite offensive line + mediocre receivers than the other way around. Philly's offensive line play, for example, is why they are in the playoff hunt still. That and .... NFC East lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Tricky to say, you’d think elite OL + replacement level WRs, but the Eagles are pretty much a case study in that right now, with an elite* OL and practice squad + draft bust WRs in the lineup, and the offense has struggled. I guess one could say that just means Carson is trash, but I would disagree. Reality is I don’t think you can really succeed with either. You need competence from every unit, at a minimum, to have a + offense. *It certainly doesn’t seem that way, it’s not like Carson has all day to throw, and the run game isn’t dominant, but PFF grades the OL’s weakest link as above average and that’s to go along w/ a RT, RG and C who are among the top ranked at their position. It’s pretty hard to get a good perception of what equals a relatively good, great, bad, etc., OL. when you’re just watching your own team play + primetime games. Which I’d assume is the case for most fans (maybe every game for 2 teams, but that’s still not enough). PFF is not perfect but no real alternative at the moment when it comes to OL play, since every other “OL metric” is not really separating OL play from QB/WR/RB play. edit: To answer OP question more directly, I think it's easier for a QB to elevate OL than WR play. I don't think any QB can make replacement level OL or WRs look good, but elite QBs often make every OL that blocks for them look pretty damn good. Brees, Manning, Brady, always hard to sack. Were they that fortunate to always have great pass blocking units in front of them? Doubtful. Their quick releases (thanks to quick processing speed), pocket presence, as well as the consistent pattern in which they navigate the pocket, makes them easy to block for and keep upright, thus making their OLs look a lot better than they probably were. Am I saying they never had great OLs? Of course not, Peyton and Brees specifically have definitely had some elite OLs. Edited December 19, 2019 by RandyMossIsBoss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukos Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 The Falcons are currently on the more extreme end of this spectrum (weapons, but not much OL), but I feel that will change next year since Lindstrom has come back from injury and is playing lights out, and the whole line seems to be improving on a week to week basis. Jake Matthews has played pretty well on the left side of the line, but McGary has been pretty poor at RT, and the cause of most of our issues. But earlier in the year, our weaknesses at offensive line caused a lot of schematic disadvantages, even though we had weapons and a solid QB. For example, in the 2nd game against New Orleans on Thanksgiving, the Saints bracketed Calvin Ridley and played press coverage against all the other remaining WRs. Given enough time in the pocket, Russel Gage and Christian Blake could eventually beat the Saints press coverage and get open. However, due to the ride side of the offensive line being a sieve, it meant that never really happened. With Ridley doubled every play, Matt Ryan's choices were to throw into double coverage vs. a very respectable Saints secondary, hold the ball waiting for Gage/Blake to beat their respective press coverages even though that risks running into the Saints pass rush, or just give up and do nothing. As you all saw on Thanksgiving, the Falcons basically ran into #2 and a bit of #3, not being able to do much of anything. They were screwed, schematically. Even though Ridley is a great WR2, this is an example of why poor offensive line play can seriously undermine even great weapons + solid QB. Meanwhile, the offensive line had one of their best performances of the entire season against the vaunted San Francisco defensive line, and while Matt didn't have all day, he did have enough time to find Julio open at key points in the game to pull off the come from behind victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) They kinda both go hand in hand and in most cases negate each other really. Dominate OL with Trash WR who run the wrong route, can't catch a football or create seperation does absolutely nothing for the QB or scoring points. Trash OL with a Dominate set of Weapons "should" in turn move the ball and score points but they and the QB will have far less time to Run those routes, catch the ball and create the seperation needed in the 1.5 sec window to have continued success. The problem with picking the trash OL over the weapons is eventually you will get the QB killed! So give me OL and let my QB live for another season and 🙏 the Greg Wards of the worlds step up in the short term because of Wentz. Edited December 20, 2019 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split the Sticks Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Elky said: I'd take an elite offensive line + mediocre receivers than the other way around. Philly's offensive line play, for example, is why they are in the playoff hunt still. Either you're misreading the thread topic or I am. It *looks* like the OP wants our opinion - is it easier for the QB to coach up (elevate) his OL or weapons? Anyway, I go WR's/TE/catching RB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The weapons for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannenballs Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 Sorry I know the wording was a bit misleading. By the results of the poll, the forum believes it is easier for an elite QB to elevate say (present day starting WR for Eagles) than to elevate the Miami Dolphins OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannenballs Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, tannenballs said: Sorry I know the wording was a bit misleading. By the results of the poll, the forum believes it is easier for an elite QB to elevate say (present day starting WR for Eagles) than to elevate the Miami Dolphins OL. As a Dolphins fan I have been arguing with other fans about avoiding skill talent early until they have 5 new starters up front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split the Sticks Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 hour ago, tannenballs said: As a Dolphins fan I have been arguing with other fans about avoiding skill talent early until they have 5 new starters up front "... from the lines OUT" - is always how I've heard it. yappers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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