Week 16 GDT: Jaguars @ Falcons

[.Buzz]

11 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

Now, now let’s not be so hasty with that now, we have to have at least 3 straight yrs of 6-10 or 5-11 before that happens around here.

This is a different situation than that. This organization was about as dysfunctional behind the scenes as it gets for the past few years that Marrone had zero to do with.

I prefer to clean house but these guys clearly think Coughlin has a large hand (and probably is right) as to why we are where we are. 

 

[.Buzz]

A Minshew dime right there.

[DuvalsKing]

12 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

This is a different situation than that. This organization was about as dysfunctional behind the scenes as it gets for the past few years that Marrone had zero to do with.

I prefer to clean house but these guys clearly think Coughlin has a large hand (and probably is right) as to why we are where we are. 

 

Were the Jags winning before Coughlin got here again I’m confused. I still don’t know what Coughlin’s front office presence has to do with putrid on the field play.

Edited December 22, 2019 by DuvalsKing

[.Buzz]

18 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

Were the Jags winning before Coughlin got here again I’m confused. I still don’t know what Coughlin’s front office presence has to do with putrid on the field play.

How? Players were getting fined for dumb **** that was illegal for him to do pissing off the players and consistently second guessing Marrone/in the locker room and a large presence with the players even though he shouldn't have. There was a screaming match between Marrone and Coughlin right by the locker room when Marrone switched to Minshew.

If you don't think everything that's leaked about Coughlin and what he was doing had zero impact about on field performance idk what to say. We literally have scrubs starting all along the defense and he doubled down on Bortles and forced the hand on Foles.

Edited December 22, 2019 by .Buzz

[DuvalsKing]

17 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

How do you not? Players were getting fined for dumb **** that was illegal for him to do pissing off the players and consistently second guessing Marrone/in the locker room and a large presence with the players even though he shouldn't have. There was a screaming match between Marrone and Coughlin right by the locker room when Marrone switched to Minshew.

If you don't think everything that's leaked about Coughlin and what he was doing had zero impact about on field performance idk what to say. We literally have scrubs starting all along the defense and he doubled down on Bortles and forced the hand on Foles.

We are talking about grown paid adults that makes millions if we’re having this conversation about college athletes I may agree with you. 

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

We are talking about grown paid adults that makes millions if we’re having this conversation about college athletes I may agree with you. 

What does that matter?

If you don't think dysfunction in the organization/locker room has any effect on play then we may as well just leave it at that.

On top of that, Coughlin has been in charge of player personnel. It's well reported he paid Foles while being the only person in the running. He pissed off Yan and barely negotiated with him while paying Myles who was atrocious at MLB this year. He ran off Jalen who is a "grown adult" due to his actions and how close he was to players. 

Go look at Twitter from ex players like ARob, Bowanko, etc. who was all about sharing their opinion about him right after he got fired.

[DuvalsKing]

53 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

What does that matter?

If you don't think dysfunction in the organization/locker room has any effect on play then we may as well just leave it at that.

On top of that, Coughlin has been in charge of player personnel. It's well reported he paid Foles while being the only person in the running. He pissed off Yan and barely negotiated with him while paying Myles who was atrocious at MLB this year. He ran off Jalen who is a "grown adult" due to his actions and how close he was to players. 

Go look at Twitter from ex players like ARob, Bowanko, etc. who was all about sharing their opinion about him right after he got fired.

We’ve been talking about this for years Coughlin didn’t just start fining and pissing players off. So the 20+ some odd years of all the players who were still winning (prior Jags and Giants players), and complaining to no avail.. they just knew how to win with Coughlin or maybe he just got lucky.. some how through all of Coughlin’s BS they were able to play through it and win games. Yet this group of soft *** players isn’t able to do it. Which one is it?

No way am I’m saying Coughlin didn’t have anything to do with the problems of this franchise. But to rake up all the BS and pile it up on his lawn and to say it’s all his fault is horse 💩.

Edited December 22, 2019 by DuvalsKing

[DuvalsKing]

My sentiments exactly.. he said it.. I didn’t. But he’s saying exactly the same thing that we just discussed. I appreciate when grown ups take accountability and don’t deflect or make excuses.

[.Buzz]

18 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

We’ve been talking about this for years Coughlin didn’t just start fining and pissing players off. So the 20+ some odd years of all the players who were still winning (prior Jags and Giants players), and complaining to no avail.. they just knew how to win with Coughlin or maybe he just got lucky.. some how through all of Coughlin’s BS they were able to play through it and win games. Yet this group of soft *** players isn’t able to do it. Which one is it?

No way am I’m saying Coughlin didn’t have anything to do with the problems of this franchise. But to rake up all the BS and pile it up on his lawn and to say it’s all his fault is horse 💩.

You mean the same Coughlin that also ran the franchise into the ground back after a few years of success? The same one that set this franchise back years and was chased out of town the first time and leaving us in a terrible cap situation?

The same Coughlin that was sat down by one of his players (Strahan) in NYG and told he had to cool it or he'd never win/get the players to play for him how he wanted to because he's a hot head, and then proceeded to change because of it?

The guy went right back to his ways but instead of doing it as a coach which is somewhat reasonable, he continued it as an EVP that should have zero contact with the players or forcing the coach to do what he wants. The same Coughlin that again, cash strapped us and is paying $40M for two QBs, one in which is playing for a different team and the other backing up a 6th round pick?

Idk what to tell you man. The writing is on the wall. Just because Coughlin had success as a coach doesn't mean **** when that wasn't his role here yet acted like it. The FO should have zero to do with the day to day and talking to players. What organization has that? Listen to Breer, Rappaport, etc. who have been saying the same thing the last week about how weird and awful the situation became.

 

[.Buzz]

That's not how organizations work. Whether its in the real world or in sports, dysfunctionality like we had is going to make its way throughout the organization. Them being "grown men" have nothing to do with it.

[DuvalsKing]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

That's not how organizations work. Whether its in the real world or in sports, dysfunctionality like we had is going to make its way throughout the organization. Them being "grown men" have nothing to do with it.

That’s not how organizations work? 🤨 I think I’ve been in a way more dysfunctional organizations within the US Army.. I’m not saying either coincides with each other. But I’ve been in situations that directly effected me and the soldiers I was with, and that was under toxic leadership with a lot more egregious things going on than getting fined money for chewing gum in a meeting. Unfortunately in that atmosphere I can’t come to work and perform poorly even under strenuous situations. 

[.Buzz]

15 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

That’s not how organizations work? 🤨 I think I’ve been in a way more dysfunctional organizations within the US Army.. I’m not saying either coincides with each other. But I’ve been in situations that directly effected me and the soldiers I was with, and that was under toxic leadership with a lot more egregious things going on than getting fined money for chewing gum in a meeting. Unfortunately in that atmosphere I can’t come to work and perform poorly even under strenuous situations. 

So you're telling me organizations with a toxic environment or ones with murky leadership where people in certain roles overstep their boundaries or don't let others do their jobs have little or no effect on the rest of the organizations/those below them?

Don't even get me started on the current construct of the roster that Coughlin assembled. We have what, 4-5 young guys that you legit thing are building blocks in Allen, Yan (who he didn't want to pay), Chark, Fournette (?), and maybe Jawaan Taylor who we all know is an upside pick rather than a proven one? 

Edited December 22, 2019 by .Buzz

[DuvalsKing]

2 hours ago, .Buzz said:

So you're telling me organizations with a toxic environment or ones with murky leadership where people in certain roles overstep their boundaries or don't let others do their jobs have little or no effect on the rest of the organizations/those below them?

Don't even get me started on the current construct of the roster that Coughlin assembled. We have what, 4-5 young guys that you legit thing are building blocks in Allen, Yan (who he didn't want to pay), Chark, Fournette (?), and maybe Jawaan Taylor who we all know is an upside pick rather than a proven one? 

35-76 shall we continue? 
 

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20191222/gene-frenette-coughlin-or-no-coughlin-itrsquos-still-same-old-jaguars?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

Edited December 23, 2019 by DuvalsKing

[.Buzz]

11 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

35-76 shall we continue? 
 

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20191222/gene-frenette-coughlin-or-no-coughlin-itrsquos-still-same-old-jaguars?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

I don't get where you're going here? That's not what the subject here is. 

I fully understand this organization has been bad with or without him prior to his arrival. Doesn't change the fact we're in a terrible spot with his guidance roster wise and he clearly was a toxic figure the last couple years in the organization.

Edited December 23, 2019 by .Buzz

[DuvalsKing]

33 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I don't get where you're going here. That's not what the subject here is.

I fully understand this organization is bad with or without him. Doesn't change the fact we're in a terrible spot with his guidance roster wise and he clearly was a toxic figure the last couple years in the organization.

I get all that I ask you these questions and I’ll leave it be.. 

-Has anything over the past 2 months changed scheme wise?

-Has the play of any player on the roster had a significant uptick since the team was 4-4?

I like Doug a lot.. one of the things that he did when he first took over you could see he took keen detail to game planning. You can look at the game when he originally took over and he got his first victory the way he game planned that game by implementing the screen game. That was a part of the game we never put on film that year if we did we rarely used it. But the way you can tell they prepared it all week the way they executed the plays that they hadn’t ran much all year to execute in the fashion they did was genius. We are no longer putting together great game plans and that’s the problem,  it’s starting to look a lot like the Gus lead teams. Same dumb penalties every week.. same mental mistakes.. by the same people.. the game plan looks the same every week.. the players look the same every week.. but the players love their coach. Ok, cool I liked Gus too it didn’t look right last year either he’s lost 20 of his last 27 games. You scored 12 points against the same defense you see everyday. Dan Quinn is what Doug should have been out of the bye.. Doug has the 3rd easiest schedule coming out the bye. Did he have Coughlin going against him yes but do not gloss over the things he had going in his favor either. He’s been beat by double digits 5 straight weeks he got the team skull drug by double digits, and 3 possible 4 of those teams gon be home with us. I’m just sayin.

Edited December 23, 2019 by DuvalsKing