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Pandomonium

Witherspoon v Moseley

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anyone else just tired of Ahkello like I am?

when he was out and Mosley filled in with sherman our pass D was much better. 
since his return, he has been stinking up the joint. 
 

how many of you would prefer the sherman/mosley combo from here on out ?

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No lol Witherspoon will be fine hes been great all year outside of the last few weeks. Let him work through it I don't want his confidence shaken before the playoffs. 

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Consistency is the hardest thing for a cornerback to get down and Spoon has definitely struggled with that. Consistency is what makes the great ones great. He was brutal against the Rams, no doubt, but let's not act like Moseley played any better against Julio than Spoon did. Julio stole both of their lunches. That happens. Julio is special. 

I love what we have found in Moseley, and I agree, he can lay some hits as a corner, but he simply doesn't have the overall upside that Spoon has. When Spoon is on his game, you can actually see an elite corner trying to break out. I don't think that Moseley (at least right now), has that gear, and he'll also have the uphill battle to climb with regards to his size. He's 5'11, sub 190. That's really difficult to match up against wide receivers who are 6'3 230. It's just a lot to give up, so even if he plays well, he can still give up catches (the first game against DK Metcalf was an illustration of that - Moseley played fine, but he couldn't match up physically). Spoon's length is a definite boon in that regard. 

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I think both are above average for their position (and age) in the league. Each probably has guys they matchup better against with like Forge laid out but sometimes you dont know who's number they have or who has theirs till its too late. 

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39 minutes ago, nayad said:

I think both are above average for their position (and age) in the league. Each probably has guys they matchup better against with like Forge laid out but sometimes you dont know who's number they have or who has theirs till its too late. 

I just hate how we keep them on one side and don't rotate them based on matchups. 

We let the offense dictate who goes against who. The NFL is all about matchups, why do we let the other team choose? Makes no sense to me 

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Witherspoon is clearly the more talented player. This is hilarious, people made up their minds on Spoon even before the season so the first time he struggles, it is time to bench him! He was playing lights out ball before the last two weeks, and really before last week. Even against Thomas where he did allow a TD, he pretty much went heads up with him like five times and more than held his own against him. One flaw he has and we are seeing it lately is, he struggles playing off man and defending crossers. It was actually one knock on Sherman in his Seattle days that if you get inside of him you can get something on him. Witherspoon doesn't allow anything on the perimeter and plays the sideline as well as you can, but get him in the middle of the field? And he is a bit vulnerable. I think he gets out of his stance too early and once the receiver makes a move, he can't react fast enough. That is teachable though. 

Looks like people forgot just how bad Moseley looked against ATL and how much he was picked on. That game would have looked MUCH worse for him if Julio didn't drop a wide open 20+ yard ball and if they called holding on him on the deep ball for Julio had him beat for a TD. Look, I like Moseley and he's been impressive, but the right corners are starting for us. Our secondary has taken a hit lately with teams taking advantage of our zone defense and having a lesser pass rush. Saleh just needs to adjust the coverages he calls and not let QBs roll out and we will be just fine. 

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I'll say we are seeing more than a single flaw with Witherspoon. He's reverted to tackling like he did in 2018, which is to say not tackling at all. That has been a multi-week problem now. But really, much of the defense has been seriously flawed these last few weeks. Witherspoon and Moseley included. 

Having both does mean we don't need to have a long leash. We can make needed changes if necessary. 

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12 hours ago, Forge said:

Consistency is the hardest thing for a cornerback to get down and Spoon has definitely struggled with that. Consistency is what makes the great ones great. He was brutal against the Rams, no doubt, but let's not act like Moseley played any better against Julio than Spoon did. Julio stole both of their lunches. That happens. Julio is special. 

I love what we have found in Moseley, and I agree, he can lay some hits as a corner, but he simply doesn't have the overall upside that Spoon has. When Spoon is on his game, you can actually see an elite corner trying to break out. I don't think that Moseley (at least right now), has that gear, and he'll also have the uphill battle to climb with regards to his size. He's 5'11, sub 190. That's really difficult to match up against wide receivers who are 6'3 230. It's just a lot to give up, so even if he plays well, he can still give up catches (the first game against DK Metcalf was an illustration of that - Moseley played fine, but he couldn't match up physically). Spoon's length is a definite boon in that regard. 

I agree with this... 
If we could put Mosley's "dog gene" in witherspoon's body ....OMG what a corner!!
 

one of the problems i have is that our corners don't travel 

Sherm didn't play against ATL but if he did (and they traveled) Julio wouldn't have eviscerated us 
they did the right thing scheming and moved Julio around to the weaker point on the defense and let him attack.

needless to say 'Spoon has GOT to develop some consistency 



 

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10 hours ago, N4L said:

I just hate how we keep them on one side and don't rotate them based on matchups. 

We let the offense dictate who goes against who. The NFL is all about matchups, why do we let the other team choose? Makes no sense to me 

facts
I hate that our corners don't travel to create more favorable matchups for our defense
there is NO WAY Mosley should have to cover big arse Julio Jones

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5 hours ago, Pandomonium said:

facts
I hate that our corners don't travel to create more favorable matchups for our defense
there is NO WAY Mosley should have to cover big arse Julio Jones

Well Moseley was intially looked at as a nickelback. Someone to play over the slot. That's where he started out as a UDFA in his first training camp. But his physicality starting getting notice so they eventually gave him some run, outside. 

I really like Spoon from a size and speed perspective but I will ALWAYS preference CBs who can cover and play the run. CBs who come up and hold the edge in the run game and attack runners with a safety's mentality. That's the most underrated aspect of Moseley's game....how well he tackles and how he helps contain the run from the CB position. 

And I love his quickness and change-of-direction. He still has some technical stuff to sort as far as playing press-man but I think he's already better at staying 'in phase' than Spoon. 

That being said, Spoon defintely has the bigger upside. If he ever truly gets his act together in the run game and becomes more reliable with his technique, he is physically the kind of front-line starter and #1 CB any team covets. But I think Moseley is still in development and is more than capable of becoming a front-line starter himself. He has elite speed and quickness for the position and the ability to follow a WR all over the field, as he can play nickel also. I think he's a more complete CB than Spoon at this point. Doesn't necessarily mean he's the better CB though....depends on match-ups really. You want Spoon's length and athleticism if we're going against a Michael Thomas or Julio Jones. If we're facing a Antonio Brown or a DeAndre Hopkins, I probably lean on Moseley's quickness and agility. 

So for me, I don't have a problem with either guy starting right now. Spoon had a rough game against the Lambs but Moseley also struggled against the Falcons, though I will say he played in Sherman's position@LCB and not@RCB where he played so well earlier in the year. Both guys are still young and evolving so I'm good with either guy taking their lumps and being better for it. It's a nice luxury to have two young CBs who have bright futures. 

 

 

 

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Spoon had a horrible game against the Rams. Absolutely brutal. I posted at some point in the third quarter to pull him immediately. 
 

That said, I have no idea how so many of you turned on him. For most of his games this year he’s been a shutdown corner. Before he got injured I posted that he was our best player on defense at that point. The Rams game wasn’t enough to convince me that he’s lost it. Atlanta wasn’t his best game but not nearly as bad as LA. 
 

I think Spoon is the starter and should be unless he regresses to the point it looks like he’s lost the mental side of the game which is when he struggled last year. I think it’s crazy to say he should be benched based off just a couple week window. 

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don't get me wrong, 
I like witherspoon's potential
 

but like an old coach used to say " son your potential is gonna get me fired"

 

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So they pulled Spoon in favor of Moseley on that last defensive stand. Not sure how that affects the dyanmic of the secondary going forward. Its too late in the year to start playing musical chairs with these guys. I know Spoon gave up some TDs so I can understand why they went with Moseley but Moseley gave up some catches in his short amount of time also. Pick a guy and stick with him...for better or for worst. Guys should know their roles heading into the playoffs. Whether its Spoon or E-Man, they need to make a decision and stick with it. 

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