Witherspoon v Moseley

[N4L]

3 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But at this point, Sherman is who he is. He's never shadowed WRs except for a few snaps here and there. He's made a HOF career off of playing one side of the field. I dont want to reinvent the wheel here. I'm always in favor of playing guys to their strengths. Not sure if that's what's best for Sherman at this point because he's clearly lost a step or two.

But I do feel like the next time they see a Thomas he needs to be doubled from the first snap. Make Brees beat you with anybody else but him. And I would be very deliberate and stubborn about it. 

Fair enough. I hear what you're saying 

With that being said - It's not like sherm is some skilled player who only does one thing well and can't adjust and would therefore be horrible doing something slightly new. The guy is who is because of his brain. He could easily play with slightly different technique by lining up somewhere new. He is smart and would be fine. 

Personally, my plan would be to have sherm follow Thomas. I then want a combo of warner and ward on Jared cook. That guy getting injured was huge for us in that game. He looked unstoppable. Then I can dedicate a lot of resources to kamara who finally looks more healthy. That's the best part of them playing this week. 

They are our biggest threat in the NFC 

[Ataal]

11 hours ago, N4L said:

Fair enough. I hear what you're saying 

With that being said - It's not like sherm is some skilled player who only does one thing well and can't adjust and would therefore be horrible doing something slightly new. The guy is who is because of his brain. He could easily play with slightly different technique by lining up somewhere new. He is smart and would be fine. 

Personally, my plan would be to have sherm follow Thomas. I then want a combo of warner and ward on Jared cook. That guy getting injured was huge for us in that game. He looked unstoppable. Then I can dedicate a lot of resources to kamara who finally looks more healthy. That's the best part of them playing this week. 

They are our biggest threat in the NFC 

I don't know if it's about being smart and being able to adapt, especially this late in his career.  I can only speak from experience in junior high and high school football(I'm sure it's a lot more complicated at the NFL level), but a lot of positions rely heavily on physical aspects.  A lot of the guys that were far more versatile were ambidextrous(or close to it).  It would be like asking a right-handed quarterback to throw with his left hand or a track sprinter to push off with his other leg.  I don't know if this is the case with Sherman, but it would make a lot of sense to me.  I know it doesn't seem like it's a big deal to a cornerback, but there may be little nuances in his game that he relies on sure-footedness, and he's been doing it for his whole career.  

I totally get where you're coming from, though.  I wish we had a cornerback who was as good or better than Sherman and could play both sides and keep him on the best receiver.  It just feels like Sherman basically tells his coaches, "This is the side I play on and it's a deal breaker."  

[uk9erfan]

Rotate them during the game to keep them fresher and not have their confidence killed by getting pulled out of the game. Also might give the WR they're covering a bit more to think about. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by uk9erfan

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, uk9erfan said:

Rotate them during the game to keep them fresher and not have their confidence killed by getting pulled out of the game. Also might give the WR they're covering a bit more to think about. 

Nah. You dont rotate CBs like you do RBs or D-Lineman. Out wide, you get a feel for the offense and how the passing game is trying to attack you and you start to key-in on certain things. I don't think you get a good 'feel' for the game instinctually, going in and out of the game. There's a reason its never really been a rotation of CBs...at least not to my knowledge. You have your two outside guys and your nickel and they pretty much play the entirety, barring injury. They build familiarity with each other and create a chemistry that I'm not sure is sustainable when one position is like a turnstile in terms of personnel. Stranger things have happened but I wouldn't want us to rotate either guy. I think that would also tip maybe what kind of coverage or technique we're trying to use on any given play.

[uk9erfan]

58 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Nah. You dont rotate CBs like you do RBs or D-Lineman. Out wide, you get a feel for the offense and how the passing game is trying to attack you and you start to key-in on certain things. I don't think you get a good 'feel' for the game instinctually, going in and out of the game. There's a reason its never really been a rotation of CBs...at least not to my knowledge. You have your two outside guys and your nickel and they pretty much play the entirety, barring injury. They build familiarity with each other and create a chemistry that I'm not sure is sustainable when one position is like a turnstile in terms of personnel. Stranger things have happened but I wouldn't want us to rotate either guy. I think that would also tip maybe what kind of coverage or technique we're trying to use on any given play.

No, you're absolutely right rotating corners is never done from what I remember. But I've never understood why teams don't try it, especially when one corner is having a particularly torrid game and being picked on all the time. It is the most isolated position outside of QB. 

[uk9erfan]

16 hours ago, N4L said:

Fair enough. I hear what you're saying 

With that being said - It's not like sherm is some skilled player who only does one thing well and can't adjust and would therefore be horrible doing something slightly new. The guy is who is because of his brain. He could easily play with slightly different technique by lining up somewhere new. He is smart and would be fine. 

Personally, my plan would be to have sherm follow Thomas. I then want a combo of warner and ward on Jared cook. That guy getting injured was huge for us in that game. He looked unstoppable. Then I can dedicate a lot of resources to kamara who finally looks more healthy. That's the best part of them playing this week. 

They are our biggest threat in the NFC 

I hope the Saints don't come to us. To be honest I think we struggle to beat them a second time if they're full strength. They have the players, the coaching experience, and the QB to do it. None of the other teams in the NFC can boast all those attributes. So yes they scare me too. 

[oldman9er]

27 minutes ago, uk9erfan said:

No, you're absolutely right rotating corners is never done from what I remember. But I've never understood why teams don't try it, especially when one corner is having a particularly torrid game and being picked on all the time. It is the most isolated position outside of QB. 

Well, the expression "can never have enough good corners" exists for a reason.   Most teams just don't trust or like their depth that much, and would rather see a struggling starter work through the issues. I don't love the rotating corners philosophy in terms of this drive to next either, but I also don't think it's essential for corners to play every snap to get in a comfort zone. 

I would less prefer the rotating of RBs play to play, tbh. I feel a RB does get in a comfort zone with more consecutive carries in a drive. That doesn't mean he needs 30 carries per game, but if having my way, I would feed the one RB (Breida) a dozen and then feed another equally skilled RB (Mostert) the next dozen in later quarters. 

I'd be good doing this with fairly equal CBs too. No coddling. CBs are supposed to be the one true swagger position. 

[757-NINER]

58 minutes ago, uk9erfan said:

I hope the Saints don't come to us. To be honest I think we struggle to beat them a second time if they're full strength. They have the players, the coaching experience, and the QB to do it. None of the other teams in the NFC can boast all those attributes. So yes they scare me too. 

Meh, I think our defense with the addition of Tartt and Ford, plays much better the second time around. I think we'll have a much better grasp of the quick passing and will scheme up a better attack. Peyton & Brees will have their moments but they're a different offense away from the dome. Highly unlikely they put up over 40 points on us again. Highly doubt we hang over 40 on them again as well but I still think we're the better team and could win in a variety of ways where as I think their offense has to play well in order for them to win.

[Pandomonium]

needless to say, I think that CB should be our first pick in the draft.

based off the inconsistency of witherspoon and the age of Sherman

 

I like AJ terrell from clemson for starters he should be there at pick 32 *wink wink*

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Pandomonium

[Chrissooner49er]

17 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

needless to say, I think that CB should be our first pick in the draft.

based off the inconsistency of witherspoon and the age of Sherman

 

I like AJ terrell from clemson for starters he should be there at pick 32 *wink wink*

 

Interior OL for me. Or a crazy talent at WR if one happens to drop.

[Pandomonium]

9 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Interior OL for me. Or a crazy talent at WR if one happens to drop.

well when you're picking 32nd overall *wink wink*
you have to go into a "we're picking top of the 2nd" mentality

I think we are going to be ok at WR what with Taylor and Hurd coming off injury and bourne (who has earned his money this year with increasingly better play) and Deebo constantly improving. 
we just need to re-sign manny sanders. 

honestly I think our interior o-line is ok and of course we should look at depth later in the draft. If anything I might go with you if you said Left Tackle

right now i honestly believe (for the reasons I already mentioned) we should go corner first 


 

[Pandomonium]

after watching witherspoon fail miserably  saturday
and mosley fill in wonderfully 

i think my initial post has been validated 
and this debate is over
 

[rudyZ]

7 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

after watching witherspoon fail miserably  saturday
and mosley fill in wonderfully 

i think my initial post has been validated 
and this debate is over
 

Spoon is still an extremely talented corner. He just has to put it together, but I don't know if he'll have to confidence to put it all together here. 

If anyone doesn't like the way Moseley plays football, they don't love football.

[J-ALL-DAY]

5 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

Spoon is still an extremely talented corner. He just has to put it together, but I don't know if he'll have to confidence to put it all together here. 

If anyone doesn't like the way Moseley plays football, they don't love football.

The confidence is key. The catches he's allowing isn't because of bad technique or him getting beat badly (minus Thielen) catch, but he has no confidence playing the ball. He's saying the right things though, and will need to snap out of this funk to last in this league:

 

[rudyZ]

Imagine the redemption story if one of our corners gets injured and he comes in and saves the day. I wish him that. But in the meantime, I'm feeling very confident with Moseley.