Week 2 GDT - San Francisco 49ers @ Seattle Seahawks

[J-ALL-DAY]

5 hours ago, N4L said:

A friend of mine played at LSU with Reid Mathieu etc and he told me last season that Reid was going to leave and go to Carolina. We will see. I really like tartt. That was a reach no doubt but he does pack a punch and seems to be a playmaker. Hes someone with a nose for the football and knows how use his pads. Good safties are imperative for this scheme and I think tartt is a solid player. 

 

Did anyone see that goddamned Wilson commercial that aired tonight? Basically he is wearing cleats and is playing the 49ers who are all wearing rollerskates (not even roller blades, but those big goofy skates) and we keep slipping around trying to get him and he jukes our entire team while disco music is playing in the background and we look like buffoons. Really freaking disrespectful commercial to air the week we are going to play them. Got my blood boiling and I really hope our defense saw it. Hes a slippery little bugger but I'm hoping the length we have up front can bottle him up somewhat and that someone can lay a nice hit or two on him early. Too bad foster isn't here to lay the lumber. Really a freaking classless thing to put out there while we suck. Go enjoy your own success and don't worry about us. Sheesh. 

Let's makes these ****ers go 0-2 and shock the world lol I would be more than ok with having them be our version of the 2016 rams, meaning we beat them twice but go 2-14

I mean was the commercial not accurate? Dude used to our defense on skates when we were dominant with the Smith bros, PWilly, Bowman, etc. 

[48 1/2ers]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

Its not where you start though. UDFAs or not, if they can play then they'll play. Devoting draft capital to the position doesn't mean those guys are guaranteed to succeed either. I think the fact both James and Jerome showed well and one actually made the 53 as a UDFA rookie bodes well for the position as a whole. They identified some young talent they obviously liked. I don't see how that could be a bad thing, no matter how said talent was acquired. 

As for Tartt, a simplified scheme could only bode well for his future. He had the misfortune of being drafted relatively high for his skillset. He was a major reach. That's on the previous GM, not really him. He was always a project that needed to be developed. Not a guy who could contribute in a year or two. Also didn't help he got indoctrinated into the pro game with two horrible defensive schemes and concepts. 

I agree, being an UDFA makes no difference at this point. Jerome, James, and dont forget Colbert fill that cupboard pretty well. 23 and 24 year olds who are playing scout team every week imitating guys like Earl Thomas only makes them better. Not sure if that new DB we signed to the practice squad plays any safety, I heard he's like 6'2 so maybe he can bounce around the secondary and find a role too. 

 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Its not where you start though. UDFAs or not, if they can play then they'll play. Devoting draft capital to the position doesn't mean those guys are guaranteed to succeed either. I think the fact both James and Jerome showed well and one actually made the 53 as a UDFA rookie bodes well for the position as a whole. They identified some young talent they obviously liked. I don't see how that could be a bad thing, no matter how said talent was acquired. 

As for Tartt, a simplified scheme could only bode well for his future. He had the misfortune of being drafted relatively high for his skillset. He was a major reach. That's on the previous GM, not really him. He was always a project that needed to be developed. Not a guy who could contribute in a year or two. Also didn't help he got indoctrinated into the pro game with two horrible defensive schemes and concepts. 

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but we have seen nothing from the udfas except a little play in practices and preseason games (which was largely against back ups third stringers in James' case in a single preseason game). Jerome has shown well so far, but a very limited sample where we can't gauge where's he's at for the NFL. It's a nice start, but we tend to over value our own players as fans. The idea that they would be ready to come in and fully replace Reid at his level is a little odd to think. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? I don't think so.  It's not like Jerome had real competition for the roster. I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to find someone as good as Reid is, which honestly isn't great, but still hard to obtain. There is a large gap (right now) between he and the likes of Jerome and James, which may never be made up.

Tartt will be the one we find out the most about. His game against Carolina had it's ups and downs. His game has some major flaws - more than Reids in my opinion. He obviously could progress, and we will find that out a little this year (when Ward inevitably gets hurt again).

But there's a weirdness behind the thought process of letting Reid go that I dont get from people. We all largely agree  that he's in a role which is an exemplary fit for him and should produce Reid at his best (hopefully). But if he has a good season, which people are expecting of him, we don't have interest in keeping him at that price point? So we finally do something to get the best of him, and then we are moving on? Not his fault that we didn't have this scheme before, and I think that his skillset has always been, and likely always will be better than Tartt's. Jerome and James I don't feel are ready to step in and produce at Reids level at this position and there's no guarantee that they ever are (Jerome likely not playing Reid's position anyway). Tartt is also a free agent a year later, so we are paying someone at some point. So I don't get why we wouldn't take the "good" known quantity that is Reid (again, based on the assumption that he has a good season). Like J said, money really shouldnt be an issue with resigning Reid. We have plenty of it. If you don't believe his good year this year (again, assuming that he has a good season), we are really going to balk at the idea of paying him 5 million more than we were paying him before for a single season? The knowledge alone is worth that (he makes a little over 5 mil this year, tag next year at safety should be between 10-11). But I really do think that people don't appreciate the gap between where Tartt / Jerome / James are right now and where Reid is.

[Forge]

1 hour ago, 48 1/2ers said:

I agree, being an UDFA makes no difference at this point. Jerome, James, and dont forget Colbert fill that cupboard pretty well. 23 and 24 year olds who are playing scout team every week imitating guys like Earl Thomas only makes them better. Not sure if that new DB we signed to the practice squad plays any safety, I heard he's like 6'2 so maybe he can bounce around the secondary and find a role too. 

 

But they haven't shown anything at this level yet....

As to the bolded...based on what? How do we know? We don't know anything about them. And the italicized really isn't all that true. Every team has those guys...are the majority of them coming up and getting better and turning into competent players? I don't think so.

And don't take me wrong, but look at what you're saying here at the end. I'm not sure if you're intending it to sound this way, but it's kind of preposterous - you're suggesting that a guy plucked off the waiver wire, who you know nothing about, including what position he plays, his size, and even his name, helps "fill the cupboard"? Really?

People really underestimating how big the gap is and how hard it can be to find someone even as good as Reid. Is there a possibility that Colbert, Jerome, James, etc could do that? Sure...but most 7th rounders and udfas don't become superstars or even competent starters. Could they come in and play at Reid's level as soon as next year? Sure, I suppose. But it's really not likely. So why would you dump off of Reid at that point? Especially in a scheme that needs to have really good safeties.

[48 1/2ers]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

But they haven't shown anything at this level yet....

As to the bolded...based on what? How do we know? We don't know anything about them. And the italicized really isn't all that true. Every team has those guys...are the majority of them coming up and getting better and turning into competent players? I don't think so.

And don't take me wrong, but look at what you're saying here at the end. I'm not sure if you're intending it to sound this way, but it's kind of preposterous - you're suggesting that a guy plucked off the waiver wire, who you know nothing about, including what position he plays, his size, and even his name, helps "fill the cupboard"? Really?

People really underestimating how big the gap is and how hard it can be to find someone even as good as Reid. Is there a possibility that Colbert, Jerome, James, etc could do that? Sure...but most 7th rounders and udfas don't become superstars or even competent starters. Could they come in and play at Reid's level as soon as next year? Sure, I suppose. But it's really not likely. So why would you dump off of Reid at that point? Especially in a scheme that needs to have really good safeties.

I think you're overreacting to the phrase fill the cupboard...rookie depth can be something to be excited about no matter how unproven they are. Sometimes a player never experiences good coaching and it can click for them. Would an older veteran on the downside of his career be better depth at this point? probably not for us

Eric Reid I've already made my point on but I think he's below average, and to me unproven rookie NFL player > below average NFL player. I'll give Reid another look in this new scheme which is what I think we should do for now because he does have talent. Bottom line is you're higher on Reid than me so I'm not underestimating the gap like you say, but you might be underestimating the level of play an udfa is capable of. 

We dont need the majority of these guys to come up and play like a starter, we need 1 or 2. Thats it, then you bring in a new crop of talent next year or the year after and start the entire process over. Thats how teams like the pats get the receivers that they do. 

 

[Forge]

31 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

I think you're overreacting to the phrase fill the cupboard...rookie depth can be something to be excited about no matter how unproven they are. Sometimes a player never experiences good coaching and it can click for them. Would an older veteran on the downside of his career be better depth at this point? probably not for us

Eric Reid I've already made my point on but I think he's below average, and to me unproven rookie NFL player > below average NFL player. I'll give Reid another look in this new scheme which is what I think we should do for now because he does have talent. Bottom line is you're higher on Reid than me so I'm not underestimating the gap like you say, but you might be underestimating the level of play an udfa is capable of. 

We dont need the majority of these guys to come up and play like a starter, we need 1 or 2. Thats it, then you bring in a new crop of talent next year or the year after and start the entire process over. Thats how teams like the pats get the receivers that they do. 

 

Well, my entire premise is based on Reid playing well this year in a scheme better suited to his talents. If he sucks, yeah, go ahead and try out the new guys lol.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

17 hours ago, N4L said:

Did anyone see that goddamned Wilson commercial that aired tonight? Basically he is wearing cleats and is playing the 49ers who are all wearing rollerskates (not even roller blades, but those big goofy skates) and we keep slipping around trying to get him and he jukes our entire team while disco music is playing in the background and we look like buffoons. Really freaking disrespectful commercial to air the week we are going to play them. Got my blood boiling and I really hope our defense saw it. Hes a slippery little bugger but I'm hoping the length we have up front can bottle him up somewhat and that someone can lay a nice hit or two on him early. Too bad foster isn't here to lay the lumber. Really a freaking classless thing to put out there while we suck. Go enjoy your own success and don't worry about us. Sheesh. 

Let's makes these ****ers go 0-2 and shock the world lol I would be more than ok with having them be our version of the 2016 rams, meaning we beat them twice but go 2-14

This one? 

 

I mean...it ain't lying. 49ers defense is dog****. You want to stop getting made fun of then improve the roster. Fight back. Don't scream "leave me alone". 

[N4L]

So you guys really don't have a problem with that commercial huh? You're acting like I'm the one off my rocker for not appreciating a commercial where my team is getting made fun of. 

It is disrespectful, no matter which way you slice it and dice it. 

When we were good, you didnt see any commercials of our players 'clowning on' any other team. we just went about our BUSINESS like PROFESSIONALS

[TecmoSuperJoe]

12 minutes ago, N4L said:

So you guys really don't have a problem with that commercial huh? You're acting like I'm the one off my rocker for not appreciating a commercial where my team is getting made fun of. 

It is disrespectful, no matter which way you slice it and dice it. 

When we were good, you didnt see any commercials of our players 'clowning on' any other team. we just went about our BUSINESS like PROFESSIONALS

Just because you aren't angrily blasting a commercial where your team is getting dogged doesn't mean you have to appreciate it either. 

Don't want your team to get made fun of, then don't be pathetic on the field. If the 49ers routinely smacked Seattle around then this commercial wouldn't make sense. Since the 49ers usually get nutted on by Seattle it isn't that far from the truth even though it's exaggerated for a shoe commercial. 

Reminds me when Bears players complained about Terrell Owens on the Eagles doing situps when he reached the endzone. THEN DON'T LET HIM REACH THE ENDZONE. 

Again, fight back. Don't be a Forty Whiner. That's my take on it anyway. The 49ers have the power to change their own destiny. Screaming for the hate to stop won't do anything though. Like Warren Moon used to say, if you want to shut people up then win. Quite simple. 

[N4L]

you act like I'm out there on the field missing tackles. I'm simply stating that the commercial ticked me off, in a room full of niners fans. Silly me for thinking that there would be some like minded compadres here who wouldn't like seeing their favorite team ridiculed in a public setting.

This will be my last post on the subject (unless we win the game at which point Seattle fans will never hear the end of it hah) 

[Forge]

As commercials go, not that bad. The only problem was that I saw #46 and my first thought was "Why are they representing Tim McDonald in this commercial? Been a while since he played..."

[y2lamanaki]

10 hours ago, Forge said:

As commercials go, not that bad. The only problem was that I saw #46 and my first thought was "Why are they representing Tim McDonald in this commercial? Been a while since he played..."

Dekoda Watson or Bryant Young bit it big time, too. 

Anyway, just a commercial. Not seeing why there'd be a fuss. It's not like it's an NFL commercial knocking one of its franchises. Completely different entity.

[big9erfan]

23 hours ago, Forge said:

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but we have seen nothing from the udfas except a little play in practices and preseason games (which was largely against back ups third stringers in James' case in a single preseason game). Jerome has shown well so far, but a very limited sample where we can't gauge where's he's at for the NFL. It's a nice start, but we tend to over value our own players as fans. The idea that they would be ready to come in and fully replace Reid at his level is a little odd to think. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? I don't think so.  It's not like Jerome had real competition for the roster. I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to find someone as good as Reid is, which honestly isn't great, but still hard to obtain. There is a large gap (right now) between he and the likes of Jerome and James, which may never be made up.

Tartt will be the one we find out the most about. His game against Carolina had it's ups and downs. His game has some major flaws - more than Reids in my opinion. He obviously could progress, and we will find that out a little this year (when Ward inevitably gets hurt again).

But there's a weirdness behind the thought process of letting Reid go that I dont get from people. We all largely agree  that he's in a role which is an exemplary fit for him and should produce Reid at his best (hopefully). But if he has a good season, which people are expecting of him, we don't have interest in keeping him at that price point? So we finally do something to get the best of him, and then we are moving on? Not his fault that we didn't have this scheme before, and I think that his skillset has always been, and likely always will be better than Tartt's. Jerome and James I don't feel are ready to step in and produce at Reids level at this position and there's no guarantee that they ever are (Jerome likely not playing Reid's position anyway). Tartt is also a free agent a year later, so we are paying someone at some point. So I don't get why we wouldn't take the "good" known quantity that is Reid (again, based on the assumption that he has a good season). Like J said, money really shouldnt be an issue with resigning Reid. We have plenty of it. If you don't believe his good year this year (again, assuming that he has a good season), we are really going to balk at the idea of paying him 5 million more than we were paying him before for a single season? The knowledge alone is worth that (he makes a little over 5 mil this year, tag next year at safety should be between 10-11). But I really do think that people don't appreciate the gap between where Tartt / Jerome / James are right now and where Reid is.

I agrere.  If he has a pro bowl year again, which is possible with his role in this kind of defense, or even if he doesn't but is in that conversation why would we want to let a still relatively young, and very solid player go?

[y2lamanaki]

3 hours ago, big9erfan said:

I agrere.  If he has a pro bowl year again, which is possible with his role in this kind of defense, or even if he doesn't but is in that conversation why would we want to let a still relatively young, and very solid player go?

Especially when unlike Goldson, we don't have a lot of other players we need to resign, and those we do won't be to big contracts. Reid, Hyde, Kilgore, Lynch, Carradine, Fusco and Dontae Johnson are the notable pending free agents. Not a lot of cap hits coming there. It's doubtful all will return. I can see Reid and Carradine (with his emergence as a strong run-defender) being the only prime contenders at a new contract, with Hyde and Kilgore coming in behind them. If Lynch is being held inactive on gamedays for more defensive linemen, I cannot see his desire to return here. Even Reid's contract won't be extraordinary. Don't see the point in him leaving if he continues his strong play throughout the year. 

K'Waun Williams will also be a free agent, but he's restricted so likely will be relatively inexpensively retained. 

[AustrianNiner]