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Ravens extend CB Marcus Peters (3 years, $42M, $32M GTD)


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17 hours ago, jrry32 said:

He was put in a position to do that. That's what we're trying to tell you. Wade changed the scheme to allow that. Marcus still had no interest in tackling or playing intelligent defense.

Peters produced in KC. Dropped off in LA. Has balled out in Baltimore. You’re of the belief that coaching has nothing or little to do with that, and Peters just opted out of playing well? And then flipped a switch mid season?

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10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Peters produced in KC. Dropped off in LA. Has balled out in Baltimore. You’re of the belief that coaching has nothing or little to do with that, and Peters just opted out of playing well? And then flipped a switch mid season?

I'm of the belief that KC traded Peters for the same sort of reasons we did.

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14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Ignore? Negative. Playing with Humphrey and Thomas probably helps a lot.

Who was the #1 CB in KC when Peters has 19 interceptions in 3 seasons? 

KC again, he wasn’t just a quality #2 there. 

Peters had a career low in interceptions for 2018 - 3. He had two with Talib, one without. Of his low 8 pass deflections, half came with Talib and half without. I’m sure Talib’s presence helped him in terms of covering lesser quality receivers, but that’s no reason for his play to drop so badly. 

Peters played at a high level in KC, often acting as a double edged sword with inconsistent effort, but it was working out on the field for the most part. He goes to LA and then his play tanks. He leaves LA, and suddenly is back at his previous level, if not higher. 

Pure stats without context are never an accurate portrayal of things.  Sean Smith was the other corner in KC, to answer your question.  The guy wasn't garbage.  He wasn't special, but he was dependable.

Talib's presence was less about him covering lesser quality receivers and more about that he wasn't afforded opportunities to freelance, which is what led to him being able to snag those turnovers.

Herein lies the issue with, what your tone suggests, as well as what a several others picking at jrry's and Leo's takes seem to be conveniently ignoring.  No one is saying that coaching didn't affect Peters, they're just saying it wasn't the main crux the way others want to make it out to be.  Wade needed Peters to be disciplined and stick to his assignment, Peters pretty regularly would bail on that to go for the glory play.  Wade adjusted the scheme to accommodate Peters' strengths after Talib went down, and it ended up being to the detriment of the rest of the secondary (particularly after John Johnson also went down).  Peters deserves his own fair share of blame for his play and for his lack of INT's; and the Rams FO deserves some criticism for trading for him thinking they could overwrite his wanton disregard for disciplined play (though in fairness, they did have the fall-back argument that he could presumably net a solid comp pick return making it a justifiable rental if his level of production remained similar).

It's a good deal for Baltimore.  An OK deal for Peters (below market for what he could have gotten if he'd shown in either KC or LA more willingness to do what was expected of him instead of what he wanted to do), even if all he'd done following that was hit the market as a UFA.  There's definitely looks like there's a reason why Peters' deal is only 3 years and runs out around the same time that Humphrey also won't be on his rookie deal any longer and would be carrying a higher cap-number.  It's a bit telling who the team believes is the #1; they have the luxury at the moment of paying the guy opposite him Top 10 CB money because their QB and leading receivers are also on rookie deals.

 

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51 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'm of the belief that KC traded Peters for the same sort of reasons we did.

His effort, attitude, and tackling have been issues. I doubt the Rams brought him in looking to completely reform him - he was who he was, he got burnt sometimes but he took the ball away too. That largely continued but then he stopped taking the ball away, but immediately improved as soon as he left in the same season. 

You don’t think coaching is a large factor in that?

15 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Pure stats without context are never an accurate portrayal of things.  Sean Smith was the other corner in KC, to answer your question.  The guy wasn't garbage.  He wasn't special, but he was dependable.

They’re not, especially with DBs, but I think Peters’ struggles and successes very much ebb and flow with his turnovers. 

And Sean Smith was only there for Peters’ rookie season. He hasn’t needed to rely on another CB in order to make plays in the past. 

15 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Talib's presence was less about him covering lesser quality receivers and more about that he wasn't afforded opportunities to freelance, which is what led to him being able to snag those turnovers.

Herein lies the issue with, what your tone suggests, as well as what a several others picking at jrry's and Leo's takes seem to be conveniently ignoring.  No one is saying that coaching didn't affect Peters, they're just saying it wasn't the main crux the way others want to make it out to be.  Wade needed Peters to be disciplined and stick to his assignment, Peters pretty regularly would bail on that to go for the glory play.  Wade adjusted the scheme to accommodate Peters' strengths after Talib went down, and it ended up being to the detriment of the rest of the secondary (particularly after John Johnson also went down).  Peters deserves his own fair share of blame for his play and for his lack of INT's; and the Rams FO deserves some criticism for trading for him thinking they could overwrite his wanton disregard for disciplined play (though in fairness, they did have the fall-back argument that he could presumably net a solid comp pick return making it a justifiable rental if his level of production remained similar).

It's a good deal for Baltimore.  An OK deal for Peters (below market for what he could have gotten if he'd shown in either KC or LA more willingness to do what was expected of him instead of what he wanted to do), even if all he'd done following that was hit the market as a UFA.  There's definitely looks like there's a reason why Peters' deal is only 3 years and runs out around the same time that Humphrey also won't be on his rookie deal any longer and would be carrying a higher cap-number.  It's a bit telling who the team believes is the #1; they have the luxury at the moment of paying the guy opposite him Top 10 CB money because their QB and leading receivers are also on rookie deals.
 

That’s my issue though, Wade needed him to be disciplined which isn’t who Peters is. That’s the square peg, round hole thing. Then Wade adjusts for Peters (which I can jive with, there was some improvement in the second half of the season) but the rest of the secondary takes a dip - not really sure it’s fair to put that on Wade or Peters, given the secondary’s lack of talent without Johnson and Talib. But fair enough. 

So it’s fair to say you think Peters was largely put in a position to succeed and didn’t deliver, correct? If that is the case, why do you think he was able to play at a higher level in KC? Baltimore has some talent on D, but he just got there mid season. If he’s capable of playing well in Baltimore, then it’s probably safe to say he didn’t just “git gud” - he was always capable. So if he’s capable and in a position to succeed in LAR, why didn’t he? 

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6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

His effort, attitude, and tackling have been issues. I doubt the Rams brought him in looking to completely reform him - he was who he was, he got burnt sometimes but he took the ball away too. That largely continued but then he stopped taking the ball away, but immediately improved as soon as he left in the same season. 

Have you looked at this numbers? He had 2 picks in 6 games with the Rams (1 every 3 games) and 3 picks in 9 games with the Ravens (1 every 3 games) this year.

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3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Have you looked at this numbers? He had 2 picks in 6 games with the Rams (1 every 3 games) and 3 picks in 9 games with the Ravens (1 every 3 games) this year.

Also double-and-a-halted his pass deflections, had an extra touchdown, and became way more active in tackling. He wasn’t having a bad season this year but he improved as soon as he left.

You don’t think coaching is a large factor in a player doing something well both before arriving and after leaving a a team?

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18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

His effort, attitude, and tackling have been issues. I doubt the Rams brought him in looking to completely reform him - he was who he was, he got burnt sometimes but he took the ball away too. That largely continued but then he stopped taking the ball away, but immediately improved as soon as he left in the same season. 

You don’t think coaching is a large factor in that?

They’re not, especially with DBs, but I think Peters’ struggles and successes very much ebb and flow with his turnovers. 

And Sean Smith was only there for Peters’ rookie season. He hasn’t needed to rely on another CB in order to make plays in the past. 

That’s my issue though, Wade needed him to be disciplined which isn’t who Peters is. That’s the square peg, round hole thing. Then Wade adjusts for Peters (which I can jive with, there was some improvement in the second half of the season) but the rest of the secondary takes a dip - not really sure it’s fair to put that on Wade or Peters, given the secondary’s lack of talent without Johnson and Talib. But fair enough. 

So it’s fair to say you think Peters was largely put in a position to succeed and didn’t deliver, correct? If that is the case, why do you think he was able to play at a higher level in KC? Baltimore has some talent on D, but he just got there mid season. If he’s capable of playing well in Baltimore, then it’s probably safe to say he didn’t just “git gud” - he was always capable. So if he’s capable and in a position to succeed in LAR, why didn’t he? 

No.  I think it's much more shades of gray than that.  Both KC and Baltimore have protected Peters more than the Rams did - and that's less down to Wade and more down to personnel.

EDGE-presence, for one (no discredit to Aaron Donald, but it's significantly easier for OL and opposing offenses to get away with regularly holding interior pass-rushers than it is edge-rushers; refs simply can't/don't see it as often and make entirely more judgment calls with regard to the former).  Help over the top being another. JJJ is an outstanding talent at safety.  He's no Eric Berry or Earl Thomas (who are generational talents).  And that's only one safety position.  Lamarcus Joyner was never a deep safety.  Eric Weddle is washed.  And Marquis Christian is JAG.  In order for a freelancer to have optimal opportunity to not be victimized by his chances taken to be opportunistic he needs savvy and talented insurance over the top.  It's kind of notably that the year in KC when Peters' production dipped coincided with the year when the refrain you constantly heard from Chiefs fans was that they needed a better deep safety - and Berry also happened to be on IR, but the rest of the safety talent around him was meh as hell - as were the CB's with Gaines on IR, and Terrance Mitchell and Steven Nelson swapping the spot back and forth in his place.

Also, if we take some pundits at their word (I believe Ryan Clark is one of them), he wasn't doing bad, but he knew he wasn't putting himself in any position to get the kind of scratch he was after.  When he got to Baltimore he's basically playing with house money - in a recognizably better position to play to his strengths (e.g. teams were chasing the Ravens all season and having to throw to do it, Humphrey was locking down opposing WR1's).

KC fans will attest to this, Peters isn't exactly a great person.  Not that players necessarily need to be, but it does go to how much benefit of the doubt he ought to be given when judging whether or not he'd be willing to put team before self.  All week long leading into the Ravens/Rams game, everything coming out of Rams players mouths was complementary and well-wishing of their former teammate.  Peters, on the other hand, appeared to relish the opportunity to show sour grapes with his "knocked them out of the playoffs" chest-thumping and behavior in the tunnel/locker room afterwards.

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5 minutes ago, The LBC said:

No.  I think it's much more shades of gray than that.  Both KC and Baltimore have protected Peters more than the Rams did - and that's less down to Wade and more down to personnel.

EDGE-presence, for one (no discredit to Aaron Donald, but it's significantly easier for OL and opposing offenses to get away with regularly holding interior pass-rushers than it is edge-rushers; refs simply can't/don't see it as often and make entirely more judgment calls with regard to the former).  Help over the top being another. JJJ is an outstanding talent at safety.  He's no Eric Berry or Earl Thomas (who are generational talents).  And that's only one safety position.  Lamarcus Joyner was never a deep safety.  Eric Weddle is washed.  And Marquis Christian is JAG.  In order for a freelancer to have optimal opportunity to not be victimized by his chances taken to be opportunistic he needs savvy and talented insurance over the top.  It's kind of notably that the year in KC when Peters' production dipped coincided with the year when the refrain you constantly heard from Chiefs fans was that they needed a better deep safety - and Berry also happened to be on IR, but the rest of the safety talent around him was meh as hell - as were the CB's with Gaines on IR, and Terrance Mitchell and Steven Nelson swapping the spot back and forth in his place.

Well, he’s not enjoying great pressure in Baltimore. The Rams are getting more sacks than the Ravens, by quite a bit. And it’s worth mentioning that KC had a very good pass rush in Peters’ rookie year, but last year’s Rams out-sacked the Chiefs of 2016 and 2017.

I see what you’re saying about the safety play behind Peters and that’s valid. I do feel that that only reinforces the square peg theory with Peters in LA, although that aspect of it is more about personnel. 

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13 minutes ago, SwoleXmad said:

It's ok, it will get better.

The team will eventually move and the L.A drama won't hurt them as much. 

I'm not from LA. I don't care where the team plays. Bring the intelligent Ravens fans back. You're a poor representative of the fanbase. xD

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55 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Also double-and-a-halted his pass deflections, had an extra touchdown, and became way more active in tackling. He wasn’t having a bad season this year but he improved as soon as he left.

You don’t think coaching is a large factor in a player doing something well both before arriving and after leaving a a team?

The Ravens have superior talent in their secondary around Peters, especially at safety with Earl Thomas. And you're moving the goal-posts. You were referencing picks.

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