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The Titans are not a real #6 seed


BayRaider

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I appreciate the Titans for setting the table for the Chiefs to play the AFCG at home. 

I don't think Martyball is a formula for winning in the the playoffs but the Titans made the most of what they had.  Today they got into the perfect situation with the early lead and still couldn't stay ahead of a great franchise quarterback.  Seen it many times as a Chiefs fan.

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Just now, ET80 said:

I'll put my own personal bow on this...

I was wrong. Plainly, simply put. This Titans team is geared up for a sustained run in the AFC - division title or not. There are decisions to be made at QB and RB, but the philosophy of this team has been planted by Mike Vrabel and it's clearly rooted. The Titans will punch you in the face and will be the most physical team on the field at any given moment; That's a quality that transcends era, and it'll serve them well.

I'll enjoy next season, where the Titans and Texans will face new challenges with a revamped Colts team and a Jags team that will be in the middle of an identity swap. I have faith in Watson, but I don't know if faith will be enough.

Good on Tennessee - you earned your respect.

I mean we thought the same thing about the Jags a few years ago. That team was oozing with young talent everywhere but quickly fell back down to earth due to lack of a QB. Now obviously Tanny is way better than Bortles but he's still at best a middling QB. I just dont think you can pencil in any team for prolonged success when its unsure if they have their long term QB. Derrick Henry is their best player that makes everything work but he wont last long if he has to keep carry that team to the playoffs, no matter how big he is.

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Just now, SilverNBlackFan said:

I mean we thought the same thing about the Jags a few years ago. That team was oozing with young talent everywhere but quickly fell back down to earth due to lack of a QB. Now obviously Tanny is way better than Bortles but he's still at best a middling QB. I just dont think you can pencil in any team for prolonged success when its unsure if they have their long term QB. Derrick Henry is their best player that makes everything work but he wont last long if he has to keep carry that team to the playoffs, no matter how big he is.

Gotta take advantage of years like that...that's for sure.

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29 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I mean we thought the same thing about the Jags a few years ago. That team was oozing with young talent everywhere but quickly fell back down to earth due to lack of a QB. Now obviously Tanny is way better than Bortles but he's still at best a middling QB. I just dont think you can pencil in any team for prolonged success when its unsure if they have their long term QB. Derrick Henry is their best player that makes everything work but he wont last long if he has to keep carry that team to the playoffs, no matter how big he is.

You can check my past history back then - I had ZERO faith in the Jags following 2016. No Andrew Luck, no JJ Watt and no Deshaun Watson is what got the Jags the division, they were 0-2 against the Titans in that season. That was a bad team that had no sort of positive leadership, had no sort of structure. Once they dealt with adversity, they ate themselves alive.

You also have to factor that Doug Marrone is a terrible HC - he took advantage of a bad division with key injuries, and that's not sustainable. The Titans have a steady presence at HC and a better QB situation. That should be enough to keep them in the conversation.

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Just now, ET80 said:

You can check my past history back then - I had ZERO faith in the Jags following 2016. No Andrew Luck, no JJ Watt and no Deshaun Watson is what got the Jags the division, they were 0-2 against the Titans in that season. That was a bad team that had no sort of positive leadership, had no sort of structure. Once they dealt with adversity, they ate themselves alive.

You also have to factor that Doug Marrone is a terrible HC - he took advantage of a bad division with key injuries, and that's not sustainable. The Titans have a steady presence at HC and a better QB situation. That should be enough to keep them in the conversation.

Say what you want, but that bad Jaguars team technically was closer to the SB than this years Titans team. They had Brady on the ropes in Foxboro and beat Rothlisberger in a shootout in Pittsburgh. Plenty of people projected them to be good for a while, especially since they had a #1 defense with a boatload of young talent and a studly looking rookie RB at the time.

But as we saw, the lack of having a true franchise QB held them back and they eventually imploded. Not saying that'll happen to the Titans, but having sustained success is usually for teams who have "that guy" at QB. 

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7 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

But as we saw, the lack of having a true franchise QB held them back and they eventually imploded. Not saying that'll happen to the Titans, but having sustained success is usually for teams who have "that guy" at QB. 

I think this is oversimplifying it. It starts at the top, with Doug Marrone - he's a REALLY bad coach. Bill O'Brien-level bad.

I'll give them the W against Pittsburgh, I'll give them going strong against Brady - but that's about it, and we saw the implosion the following year, AFTER going 3-1 and getting a revenge W against New England in New England. Bortles started tanking, the defense started up a mutiny and Marrone lost that locker room in a snap. 

That very well could have been the Titans this season, but Vrabel benched Mariota for an average guy in Tannehill and the team responded in a very convincing fashion. Vrabel made the tough call and got the team focused.

It's a very underappreciated skill to rally the troops like that.

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3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I think this is oversimplifying it. It starts at the top, with Doug Marrone - he's a REALLY bad coach. Bill O'Brien-level bad.

I'll give them the W against Pittsburgh, I'll give them going strong against Brady - but that's about it, and we saw the implosion the following year, AFTER going 3-1 and getting a revenge W against New England in New England. Bortles started tanking, the defense started up a mutiny and Marrone lost that locker room in a snap. 

That very well could have been the Titans this season, but Vrabel benched Mariota for an average guy in Tannehill and the team responded in a very convincing fashion. Vrabel made the tough call and got the team focused.

It's a very underappreciated skill to rally the troops like that.

i don’t think we’re gonna see a jags-esque implosion because like you said, we have actual leadership on this team. but with the tannehill and henry decisions looming, this off-season is going to be massively consequential in terms of whether this team is a playoff contender for the next few years or whether we’re back around .500 again. i genuinely don’t know what the right call is, but it’s gonna make or break us imo.

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12 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Say what you want, but that bad Jaguars team technically was closer to the SB than this years Titans team. They had Brady on the ropes in Foxboro and beat Rothlisberger in a shootout in Pittsburgh. Plenty of people projected them to be good for a while, especially since they had a #1 defense with a boatload of young talent and a studly looking rookie RB at the time.

I'd actually argue the Jags lost to the #1 seed in Foxboro, while the Titans beat the #1 seed in Baltimore. That's more impressive IMO.

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16 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I think this is oversimplifying it. It starts at the top, with Doug Marrone - he's a REALLY bad coach. Bill O'Brien-level bad.

I'll give them the W against Pittsburgh, I'll give them going strong against Brady - but that's about it, and we saw the implosion the following year, AFTER going 3-1 and getting a revenge W against New England in New England. Bortles started tanking, the defense started up a mutiny and Marrone lost that locker room in a snap. 

That very well could have been the Titans this season, but Vrabel benched Mariota for an average guy in Tannehill and the team responded in a very convincing fashion. Vrabel made the tough call and got the team focused.

It's a very underappreciated skill to rally the troops like that.

Care to expand on Marrone being a really bad coach?

His QBs since coming to the NFL have been EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Blake Bortles, and now Gardner Minshew (who actually looks promising compared to the rest).

I'd say he's largely overachieved given the situations he's been in with a sketchy ownership situation in Buffalo and now a situation in which Coughlin strong armed him and put him with players/coaches that Marrone had zero say on.

Edited by .Buzz
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8 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Henry is basically coming off a 400 carry season. Will be very interesting to see what they decide to do with him.

Pay him and draft a RB to compliment him over the course of the season until it’s time to take over in December/January. I’d then go after who’s cheaper between Tannehill and Brady.

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7 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Care to expand on Marrone being a really bad coach?

His QBs since coming to the NFL have been EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Blake Bortles, and now Gardner Minshew (who actually looks promising compared to the rest)

So, by this logic - Bill O'Brien is a good HC because his QBs since coming to the NFL have been Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer and Brock Osweiler.

(He's not, BTW).

Doug Marrone is not a good coach because he's unable to manage his locker room. From Yannick Ngakoue starting fights in the locker room and on the sideline to Leonard Fournette running across the field to jump into a fight to the entire team giving up over the past two seasons, he's let that locker room walk all over him. There is absolutely no accountability or discipline in Jacksonville, and that is 100% on him as a HC. THAT is more important than any Xs and Os or clock management skill - the ability to manage to roster and not go off the rails when things go downhill.

You can try to paint it out with Marrone as the victim to Coughlin, but that team completely walked up and down on Marrone from the looks of it. That's not a good thing for someone who is supposed to establish leadership.

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Don't mean to hijack this thread but;

There has been reports that the environment inside the Jaguars organization has been largely toxic for a while now. Since Coughlin came in he's been fining guys and being way too involved with day to day operations than an EVP should.

If you look to the coaches that have been here since Marrone got hired on (same year as Coughlin), you'll notice a large amount of his staff had direct ties to Coughlin. 

Going back to the fining, that obviously pissed a lot of players off. Fowler pushed his way out because of it, Ramsey even more so. Those two were the big issues with locker room issues and both had big personalities that Marrone I'm sure could've done better with, but considering how big of hand Coughlin had with anything and everything it caused major rifts in which Marrone had to basically play the middle man with little to no power.

If it wasn't obvious Marrone had no control, last year Coughlin went all in on the idea of Foles and paid him more than what they needed to make sure it was obvious it was "his team", and hiring Flip prior was a big thing to draw him in and also make sure he had the best chance to succeed. It blew up in Coughlins face, and when Doug said Minshew was his guy and sat Foles they had a shouting match in Doug's office.

When the presser came out with Marrone and Caldwell after it was announced they were staying, they said that they plan on allowing the coaching staff and scouting staff to work together for the draft and FA now, compared to before where the coaches had zero say.

I don't think you know just how awful of situation he had it here. If Doug wasn't coming back, it was because he was fed up with his situation. It wouldn't have been because we wanted to move on. The guy literally got a 50/50 split on player personnel to stay on because he didn't want that type of situation where he gets saddled with players that don't fit anymore.

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

So, by this logic - Bill O'Brien is a good HC because his QBs since coming to the NFL have been Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer and Brock Osweiler.

(He's not, BTW).

Doug Marrone is not a good coach because he's unable to manage his locker room. From Yannick Ngakoue starting fights in the locker room and on the sideline to Leonard Fournette running across the field to jump into a fight to the entire team giving up over the past two seasons, he's let that locker room walk all over him. There is absolutely no accountability or discipline in Jacksonville, and that is 100% on him as a HC. THAT is more important than any Xs and Os or clock management skill - the ability to manage to roster and not go off the rails when things go downhill.

You can try to paint it out with Marrone as the victim to Coughlin, but that team completely walked up and down on Marrone from the looks of it. That's not a good thing for someone who is supposed to establish leadership.

Should've waited for you to reply, but my notes are above.

Regardless, is he a great coach? I really don't know until we see him with normal controls of being a coach (although I'd lean doubtful). Is a terrible HC like you suggest? I definitely wouldn't put him in that category even with what's transpired. Coughlin being out of the building will allow him to finally have his stamp on the team, good or bad. But right now idk how these past couple years, given all the info that has come out, you could pin the players speaking out/being agitated and struggling to keep things cool on him. The NFLPA literally outted the team/Coughlin and told players to stay away because of it...which never happens.

Next year will be telling either way, although the talent situation isn't ideal.

Edited by .Buzz
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