You decide: Do we move on from Carr this offseason?

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, NickButera said:

I support Carr. Come at me bro.

He's a good QB and there isn't an upgrade this season from him. We replace carr this off-season, we get worse as a team next year. I'm down for drafting someone and letting him sit a year, two or three years. But if we want to improve in the win column, there isn't any other option to go to the next 5 months at the QB position. 

1

I think he'll be the starting quarterback next season. I can't really see us moving on from Carr to overpay someone like Winston or Bridgewater in free agency. The only scenario I could potentially see us cutting Carr would be if we targeted Mariota on a short term team-friendly deal. Hell, I could see us bringing Carr back and bringing in Mariota to push him. Mayock and Gruden both had Mariota as their QB1 during the pre-draft process. 

[BayRaider]

23-15 for “No”. We don’t even have that many posters in this section. Frankie and HB at hard work here...

Anyways, I think we should drop Carr. We keep saying “oh let’s give him one more year” and before you know it this turns into a Joe Flacco/Raven situation. He should of been gone after 2015... but they held onto that guy for six terrible seasons after his SB year. It almost cost Harbaugh his job. They draft and develop a new QB and they are 14-2. 
 

I’m not saying Lamar Jackson’s are easy to find. But Derek Carr’s are easy to find. You guys think he is way better than he is. He’s not... go write down all 32 QB’s in the league name by name. Carr is borderline Top 20. And paid like he’s Top 14-15. 
 

My options are:

1) Trade up for Tua

2) Sign an old vet to a two year deal (nothing guaranteed in the 2nd year) like Tom Brady, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc and draft a project QB like Jordan Love. I’m fully confident in our staff developing a project QB. 

Carr is not in my plans at all. We should trade him in Late Feb/Early March for a 3rd Round Pick. 
 

However, if we do keep Carr one more season and draft a QB like Jordan Love, I’m OK with that. Do I agree with it? No. But Gruden and Mayock have earned my respect and are more knowledgable than me. 

 

[Totty]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

23-15 for “No”. We don’t even have that many posters in this section. Frankie and HB at hard work here...

Anyways, I think we should drop Carr. We keep saying “oh let’s give him one more year” and before you know it this turns into a Joe Flacco/Raven situation. He should of been gone after 2015... but they held onto that guy for six terrible seasons after his SB year. It almost cost Harbaugh his job. They draft and develop a new QB and they are 14-2. 
 

I’m not saying Lamar Jackson’s are easy to find. But Derek Carr’s are easy to find. You guys think he is way better than he is. He’s not... go write down all 32 QB’s in the league name by name. Carr is borderline Top 20. And paid like he’s Top 14-15. 
 

My options are:

1) Trade up for Tua

2) Sign an old vet to a two year deal (nothing guaranteed in the 2nd year) like Tom Brady, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc and draft a project QB like Jordan Love. I’m fully confident in our staff developing a project QB. 

Carr is not in my plans at all. We should trade him in Late Feb/Early March for a 3rd Round Pick. 
 

However, if we do keep Carr one more season and draft a QB like Jordan Love, I’m OK with that. Do I agree with it? No. But Gruden and Mayock have earned my respect and are more knowledgable than me. 

 

What?  How are you sold on our staff developing a project when they couldn't develop an a former MVP caliber (2016) talent in Carr?  This doesn't make sense.  

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Totty said:

What?  How are you sold on our staff developing a project when they couldn't develop an a former MVP caliber (2016) talent in Carr?  This doesn't make sense.  

Carr is no where close to an MVP talent... what? He had the #1 Pass Protection in 2016 (one of the best EVER actually) and two #1 WRs. And that season is actually really overrated due to his comebacks. He only averaged 7.0 YPA and was still mostly a dink and dunk QB. 
 

The idea that you think Carr is MVP talent just makes me not even want to continue this discussion, because that’s so far from the actual reality of things. Carr has always been massively conservative, since College. Across 5 coaching staffs. This did not start in 2017. 
 

We will see who’s right once Gruden has a Top 10 QB that isn’t Derek Carr. The problem is Carr, not Gruden or coaching. 

[NJ Raider]

11 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

23-15 for “No”. We don’t even have that many posters in this section. Frankie and HB at hard work here...

Anyways, I think we should drop Carr. We keep saying “oh let’s give him one more year” and before you know it this turns into a Joe Flacco/Raven situation. He should of been gone after 2015... but they held onto that guy for six terrible seasons after his SB year. It almost cost Harbaugh his job. They draft and develop a new QB and they are 14-2. 
 

I’m not saying Lamar Jackson’s are easy to find. But Derek Carr’s are easy to find. You guys think he is way better than he is. He’s not... go write down all 32 QB’s in the league name by name. Carr is borderline Top 20. And paid like he’s Top 14-15. 
 

My options are:

1) Trade up for Tua

2) Sign an old vet to a two year deal (nothing guaranteed in the 2nd year) like Tom Brady, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc and draft a project QB like Jordan Love. I’m fully confident in our staff developing a project QB. 

Carr is not in my plans at all. We should trade him in Late Feb/Early March for a 3rd Round Pick. 
 

However, if we do keep Carr one more season and draft a QB like Jordan Love, I’m OK with that. Do I agree with it? No. But Gruden and Mayock have earned my respect and are more knowledgable than me. 

 

The thing that boggles my mind is that some ppl act like he's irreplaceable. Most starting caliber QBs could meet or exceed his production. Other than the fact that he was our first decent qb since Campbell, what is so special about him?

[BayRaider]

Just now, NJ Raider said:

The thing that boggles my mind is that some ppl act like he's irreplaceable. Most starting caliber QBs could meet or exceed his production. Other than the fact that he was our first decent qb since Campbell, what is so special about him?

Exactly. You’d get better production from Ryan Fitzpatrick who just grinded one of the worst rosters of all time to 5 wins with no wideouts, no RB, and no line. 
 

But people look at “names” too much. “Fitzpatrick???” “Yuck!!!! Journeyman, INTs, not franchise QB!!!”.

I will guarantee Fitzpatrick produces more than Carr in this offense. You have to look at production only, take names completely out of it. The A’s make the playoffs yearly with this strategy. I’m not comparing football to baseball, but my point is looking at a guys name or personality is useless. Look purely at his production. 

[Totty]

35 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Carr is no where close to an MVP talent... what? He had the #1 Pass Protection in 2016 (one of the best EVER actually) and two #1 WRs. And that season is actually really overrated due to his comebacks. He only averaged 7.0 YPA and was still mostly a dink and dunk QB. 
 

The idea that you think Carr is MVP talent just makes me not even want to continue this discussion, because that’s so far from the actual reality of things. Carr has always been massively conservative, since College. Across 5 coaching staffs. This did not start in 2017. 
 

We will see who’s right once Gruden has a Top 10 QB that isn’t Derek Carr. The problem is Carr, not Gruden or coaching. 

I said former MVP caliber.  Don't take what I said out of context to suit your argument.  

And he was.  In 2016.  And the same staff that you trust to figure out a "project" is the same one that has failed (thus far) to develop Carr.  

Edited December 31, 2019 by Totty

[BayRaider]

18 minutes ago, Totty said:

I said former MVP caliber.  Don't take what I said out of context to suit your argument.  

And he was.  In 2016.  And good same staff that you trust to figure out a "project" is the same one that has failed (thus far) to develop Carr.  

Just because he finished Top 4 in MVP voting does not make him an MVP talent. Andy Dalton was Top 3 in 2015. Carr had one of the best protections of all time, two #1 WRs, and that season is highly overrated due to the Raiders five comeback victories. In reality Carr was still mostly a dink and dunk guy and ultra conservative. He’s been that way across five coaching staffs. 
 

Carr never was an MVP talent, ever, and never will be. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by BayRaider

[Totty]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

Just because he finished Top 4 in MVP voting does not make him an MVP talent. Andy Dalton was Top 3 in 2015. Carr had one of the beat protections of all time, two #1 WRs, and that season is highly overrated due to the Raiders five comeback victories. In reality Carr was still mostly a dink and dunk guy and ultra conservative. He’s been that way across five coaching staffs. 
 

Carr never was an MVP talent, ever, and never will be. 

Reading comprehension must not be your thing. 

[NYRaider]

One of the biggest issues with Carr is he lacks the ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing. He plays too strictly within the system and panics a lot of the time if his first look isn't there. 

I also heard all offseason that a major reason for his struggles was a lack of continuity within a system. 

Year 1 in Gruden's offense: 4,049 yards (68.9 Comp%), 19 TD, 8 INT, 7.3 YPA

Year 2 in Gruden's offense: 4,054 yards (70.4 Comp%), 21 TD, 8 INT, 7.9 YPA 

So his numbers are almost identical between year 1 and year 2, despite going from the 6th most sacked QB in 2018 (51) to the 8th least sacked QB in 2019 (29) and our rushing attack improving from the 25th best in the league to the 13th best. I think it's safe to assume that Carr is who he is at this point, an average starting quarterback that can be slightly above average if he has the right pieces around him.

[Steins Gate]

1 hour ago, NJ Raider said:

The thing that boggles my mind is that some ppl act like he's irreplaceable. Most starting caliber QBs could meet or exceed his production. Other than the fact that he was our first decent qb since Campbell, what is so special about him?

He is not irreplaceable. Just tough to replace due to a lack of realistic options. Any vet FA QB that would voluntarily play for the Raiders would be around Carr's level or worse. So what's the point of replacing him then? The only way that I would replace him this offseason, is if we got a good deal. 

You guys know that I am a Carr critic. But I am struggling to see why you want to gamble on another QB unless he is a draft pick. I would let Carr be our QB for 2 more years if we got a decent developmental QB. (Just puked again...)

[BayRaider]

9 minutes ago, Steins Gate said:

He is not irreplaceable. Just tough to replace due to a lack of realistic options. Any vet FA QB that would voluntarily play for the Raiders would be around Carr's level or worse. So what's the point of replacing him then? The only way that I would replace him this offseason, is if we got a good deal. 

You guys know that I am a Carr critic. But I am struggling to see why you want to gamble on another QB unless he is a draft pick. I would let Carr be our QB for 2 more years if we got a decent developmental QB. (Just puked again...)

While I’m not high on most of these rookies, most of them would have better production than Carr in their second year. Fitzpatrick, Brady, Tannehil would all have better production. Carr is a Top 20-22 QB. Top 17-18 on his best days. That is easily replaceable. 

[Steins Gate]

Just now, BayRaider said:

While I’m not high on most of these rookies, most of them would have better production than Carr in their second year. Fitzpatrick, Brady, Tannehil would all have better production. Carr is a Top 20-22 QB. Top 17-18 on his best days. That is easily replaceable. 

Brady and Tannehill aren't coming here. And unless the Dolphins are stupid, they had better hold on to Fitzpatrick (for one more year). So who would be the options?

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, Steins Gate said:

Brady and Tannehill aren't coming here. And unless the Dolphins are stupid, they had better hold on to Fitzpatrick (for one more year). So who would be the options?

This is why I expect us to not cut Carr when his contract renews Feb 6th. But that doesn’t mean he’ll be our starting QB. I could see us trading a 4th for Fitz and trading Carr for a 3rd. Dolphins probably land Tua and Tua starts Game 1 100%. 
 

Like you said, if we don’t have options Carr could be here another year. But I’m very confident we will find an upgrade this off season. If not, we’ll get Jordan Love and Carr will need to tear the house down to keep his job in 2020. 

[Steins Gate]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

This is why I expect us to not cut Carr when his contract renews Feb 6th. But that doesn’t mean he’ll be our starting QB. I could see us trading a 4th for Fitz and trading Carr for a 3rd. Dolphins probably land Tua and Tua starts Game 1 100%. 
 

Like you said, if we don’t have options Carr could be here another year. But I’m very confident we will find an upgrade this off season. If not, we’ll get Jordan Love and Carr will need to tear the house down to keep his job in 2020. 

Maybe we can swap Carr for Fitz and a draft pick.... Hmmmm... Then we wouldn't have to give up any picks.  Let Fitz be the guy for 2 years while we develop someone. 

Would be nice, but I don't see Gruden doing it.