Picking #3

[CWood21]

54 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Stafford is what, 31 years old? Let's say that he has another 5 solid years. Young is a blue chip, top level prospect at one of the premier positions in the entire game. He could potentially be a major part in the team making the playoffs next year if he's on the roster. If that's the case, we aren't even in the mix for Lawrence or Fields anyway. 

He could.  Or he could be another high pick that wallows in mediocrity.  Realistically, how long do you think it'll be before the Lions are competitive again?  And I'm not talking about .500 competitive, I'm talking about pushing for the playoffs.  I see a roster that's 2-3 years away minimum.  Look at some of the core roster guys on the 49ers roster: Mike McGlinchey (starting RT), Fred Warner (starting MIKE), George Kittle (starting TE), and DeForest Buckner (starting DL).  That's a pretty good chunk of their core.  Looking at the last 3-4 Lions' drafts, which players would you consider your core players?  Making the assumption that Chase Young is suddenly going to elevate the Lions to the playoffs seems like a huge step of faith.

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

The Packers were exposed and were never the team their record showed; the Vikings have some flaws and the Bears are likely going to be looking for a new QB in 2021 themselves. The Lions have a lot of work to do but this isn't a division like the AFC East has been or what the AFC West is looking like with the Chiefs as a powerhouse for a long time. 

Packers were not exposed.  They lost to the better team who has the scheme that runs directly opposite of the philosophy that Pettine ran.  IF they were exposed, the Seahawks would have done the same thing.  But they didn't.  Vikings were always a flawed team, and were only going to go as far as Kirk Cousins took them.  As for the Bears, nothing has changed for them coming out of last season that they showed this year.  They're a great defense, but fundamentally flawed because of their mediocre QB.  They're a perfect example of a .500 team.  IF I'm the Lions, I'm targeting 2-3 years from now.  Not this year.

[LionArkie]

46 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He could.  Or he could be another high pick that wallows in mediocrity.  Realistically, how long do you think it'll be before the Lions are competitive again?  And I'm not talking about .500 competitive, I'm talking about pushing for the playoffs.  I see a roster that's 2-3 years away minimum.  Look at some of the core roster guys on the 49ers roster: Mike McGlinchey (starting RT), Fred Warner (starting MIKE), George Kittle (starting TE), and DeForest Buckner (starting DL).  That's a pretty good chunk of their core.  Looking at the last 3-4 Lions' drafts, which players would you consider your core players?  Making the assumption that Chase Young is suddenly going to elevate the Lions to the playoffs seems like a huge step of faith.

Packers were not exposed.  They lost to the better team who has the scheme that runs directly opposite of the philosophy that Pettine ran.  IF they were exposed, the Seahawks would have done the same thing.  But they didn't.  Vikings were always a flawed team, and were only going to go as far as Kirk Cousins took them.  As for the Bears, nothing has changed for them coming out of last season that they showed this year.  They're a great defense, but fundamentally flawed because of their mediocre QB.  They're a perfect example of a .500 team.  IF I'm the Lions, I'm targeting 2-3 years from now.  Not this year.

I would agree with most of this.  However, the Lions management doesn't have 2-3 years, or so Martha has tried to convince the fan base as such. I see our best talent either aging or being alienated.  I believe most of Quinns picks have been solid, but not what I would call a core group. So, I believe we are going to make a last ditch effort to make the playoffs next year.  I don't think this is the best strategy, but management may not have a choice.  Realistically, I think the Lions are a solid 7-9 - 9-7 team with a healthy Stafford.  We are missing some vital parts...like linebackers a defensive line, running backs and a coaching staff :-) to realistically make the playoffs, imo.

Edited January 21, 2020 by LionArkie

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

If the Lions land Chase Young, and if he's only a "good" player, this roster is competing for a playoff spot immediately.

With Stafford, this roster took the Chiefs to the wire and had the Packers during their first meeting (hello "illegal hands to the face"... x2). Both Bears' games, the Cowboys game, the Bucs game, the Redskins game and the Broncos game were all very winnable. Our biggest flaw was a lack of pressure, and Young immediately fixes that, making Flowers vastly more effective, and making life easier for Slay and Co.

Edited January 22, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway

[LionArkie]

I think this is possible, but if I'm a betting man, I bet against a playoff outcome.  I just don't think a rookie DE will have this kind of impact especially later on in the season when the rookies seem to hit that "rookie wall".  For me, anything we do puts us 2-3 years away. Best case scenario, one year away. I hope your right TL, I just don't think we are there yet and I believe, according to Martha, we will be starting over again at the end of next season. For the past 32 years I've been watching this team, they have always been the "Almost Lions", not the Detroit Lions. Hopefully next year things will change and I will be eating crow.

[Karnage84]

2 hours ago, LionArkie said:

I think this is possible, but if I'm a betting man, I bet against a playoff outcome.  I just don't think a rookie DE will have this kind of impact especially later on in the season when the rookies seem to hit that "rookie wall".  For me, anything we do puts us 2-3 years away. Best case scenario, one year away. I hope your right TL, I just don't think we are there yet and I believe, according to Martha, we will be starting over again at the end of next season. For the past 32 years I've been watching this team, they have always been the "Almost Lions", not the Detroit Lions. Hopefully next year things will change and I will be eating crow.

Bosa helped the 49ers take a big leap on the defensive side; competent QB play from Garrapolo helped the offense. They're now in the Super Bowl after there were calls for them to lose their jobs after this season. Buckner, Armstead and Thomas (especially him) were all thought to be over drafted and potential busts. Star players can help open up things in a big way for the guys around them. 

[LionArkie]

I don't disagree one bit.  That's why I said it's possible.  Would you bet on the Lions making the playoffs?  I wouldn't, and if you will, let me know.  We could make it interesting.  However, the 49ers jumping from their position to the Superbowl is not the norm. You like digging into stuff, I bet if you dug into how many teams went from 4-12 to the Superbowl you would find threre aren't many, and those going to the playoffs are low probability as well.   Just like getting the GOAT at qb in the sixth round is not likely, nor a key spot to draft a franchise qb.  Can it happen, absolutely, but is it likely?  I don't think so.  I still am not sure with a completely healthy team, this 2019 Lions team would have made the playoffs.  People want to point out the Kansas City game, which is worth pointing out, but so is the Arizona game.  This team reminds me of so many other Lions teams in the past.  They can hang with the Superbowl teams and playoff teams just enough to give you hope, then lose to the worst team in the league.  With this being said, I still stand pat at letting Patricia and Quinn stay on the next few years.

[LionArkie]

Also, I want to point out, the 49ers are a defense first team who can run the ball.  The 49ers are not built like the Lions.  They are built how I've been screaming to build a team, through defense and running the ball, which gets you into the playoffs and into the Superbowl more times than not.  They are #2 ypg defense, #1 against the pass yards per game, #17 against the rush, #4 total offense ypg, #13 pass yards per game, #2 rushing yards per game.  They are built nothing like the lions who are a pass first team, not run first.  The only thing I think that is comparable is they lost last year and so did we.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2019&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go

Edited January 22, 2020 by LionArkie

[Sllim Pickens]

9 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I don't disagree one bit.  That's why I said it's possible.  Would you bet on the Lions making the playoffs?  I wouldn't, and if you will, let me know.  We could make it interesting.  However, the 49ers jumping from their position to the Superbowl is not the norm. You like digging into stuff, I bet if you dug into how many teams went from 4-12 to the Superbowl you would find threre aren't many, and those going to the playoffs are low probability as well.   Just like getting the GOAT at qb in the sixth round is not likely, nor a key spot to draft a franchise qb.  Can it happen, absolutely, but is it likely?  I don't think so.  I still am not sure with a completely healthy team, this 2019 Lions team would have made the playoffs.  People want to point out the Kansas City game, which is worth pointing out, but so is the Arizona game.  This team reminds me of so many other Lions teams in the past.  They can hang with the Superbowl teams and playoff teams just enough to give you hope, then lose to the worst team in the league.  With this being said, I still stand pat at letting Patricia and Quinn stay on the next few years.

I was about to like this post until the last sentence.  I agree this team isnt close, but I also think if you fail three years in a row, you lose the chance to keep trying, unless your name is Matt Millen.  Get these clowns out of town and then see if we can get lucky the next time around. 

[LionArkie]

Lol, I know I'm in the minority.  If I felt the Fords could hire the right person, I would completely agree to remove Patricia and Quinn.  However, my desire to keep them is more about the Ford's than is about the job Quinn and Patricia are doing.

Edited January 22, 2020 by LionArkie

[LionArkie]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I was about to like this post until the last sentence.  I agree this team isnt close, but I also think if you fail three years in a row, you lose the chance to keep trying, unless your name is Matt Millen.  Get these clowns out of town and then see if we can get lucky the next time around. 

If the Lions finished 7-9 next year, would you extend Patricia and Quinn?  For me, if the team took a huge leap in defense and finished 7-9 and were competitive I'd keep them on.  If they finished how they did this year.  They would be gone.

[Karnage84]

5 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I don't disagree one bit.  That's why I said it's possible.  Would you bet on the Lions making the playoffs?  I wouldn't, and if you will, let me know.  We could make it interesting.  However, the 49ers jumping from their position to the Superbowl is not the norm. You like digging into stuff, I bet if you dug into how many teams went from 4-12 to the Superbowl you would find threre aren't many, and those going to the playoffs are low probability as well.   Just like getting the GOAT at qb in the sixth round is not likely, nor a key spot to draft a franchise qb.  Can it happen, absolutely, but is it likely?  I don't think so.  I still am not sure with a completely healthy team, this 2019 Lions team would have made the playoffs.  People want to point out the Kansas City game, which is worth pointing out, but so is the Arizona game.  This team reminds me of so many other Lions teams in the past.  They can hang with the Superbowl teams and playoff teams just enough to give you hope, then lose to the worst team in the league.  With this being said, I still stand pat at letting Patricia and Quinn stay on the next few years.

I don't think the Lions are going to the Super Bowl next year but the playoffs aren't out of the question. If next year has a similar outcome then I don't see them being brought back.

[Karnage84]

8 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

Also, I want to point out, the 49ers are a defense first team who can run the ball.  The 49ers are not built like the Lions.  They are built how I've been screaming to build a team, through defense and running the ball, which gets you into the playoffs and into the Superbowl more times than not.  They are #2 ypg defense, #1 against the pass yards per game, #17 against the rush, #4 total offense ypg, #13 pass yards per game, #2 rushing yards per game.  They are built nothing like the lions who are a pass first team, not run first.  They only thing I think that is comparable is they lost last year and so did we.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2019&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go

The 49ers are built like the Lions want to play with a strong defense and a focus on the run. It just didn't work. They definitely have gaps to fill before they will legitimately be a better and more competitive team. 

[Sllim Pickens]

6 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

If the Lions finished 7-9 next year, would you extend Patricia and Quinn?  For me, if the team took a huge leap in defense and finished 7-9 and were competitive I'd keep them on.  If they finished how they did this year.  They would be gone.

Nope.  They had a playoff team and if they cant get back in three years, they can all go.  If we are 9-7 next year I would fire them.  They would have had three years to make it work and that is more than enough time to see who is ready to be a HC/GM and who should go back to coordinator.  

[Karnage84]

5 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

If the Lions finished 7-9 next year, would you extend Patricia and Quinn?  For me, if the team took a huge leap in defense and finished 7-9 and were competitive I'd keep them on.  If they finished how they did this year.  They would be gone.

If they finished 7-9, lost a couple other competitive games against solid teams and team looked like it was trending. I probably would. Anything less than 7 wins and you have to figure that it's not going in the right direction. At that time, I would probably look at a guy like Robert Saleh. The 49ers have a top tier defense and the guy is from Michigan. 

[Sllim Pickens]

25 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

If they finished 7-9, lost a couple other competitive games against solid teams and team looked like it was trending. I probably would. Anything less than 7 wins and you have to figure that it's not going in the right direction. At that time, I would probably look at a guy like Robert Saleh. The 49ers have a top tier defense and the guy is from Michigan. 

Making the playoffs wasnt good enough 2 years ago, so 7 wins isnt good enough 3 years later.  No coaches that are successful have had three losing seasons to start there careers (none really have had two bad seasons to start).  Some go back to being assistants and then get another shot after learning and growing more, but I thats a risk you take.  Patricia doesnt have it, he still has a ton to learn as a coach in the league and I am not wanting him to learn on the job here.