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Superduperman

Picking #3

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I say either trade up to #1 get Young or trade down if possible as far down as you can.. let's go for future picks..gonna need us a shiny new qb soon

Try a different strategy... or use these assets (players/picks) to go after the players you want/need don't treat these picks like gold... more than likely you gonna draft avg anyway... for quins sake he better buck quit filling holes 1/2 yrs later draft us one star moron... guy is flippn *** backwards... 

So either trade up to 1 go after who you were tanking for don't be a possy 

Worry about getting a Little ahead of the game go after future picks

But for the love of God don't stay at 3

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28 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

I say either trade up to #1 get Young or trade down if possible as far down as you can.. let's go for future picks..gonna need us a shiny new qb soon

Try a different strategy... or use these assets (players/picks) to go after the players you want/need don't treat these picks like gold... more than likely you gonna draft avg anyway... for quins sake he better buck quit filling holes 1/2 yrs later draft us one star moron... guy is flippn *** backwards... 

So either trade up to 1 go after who you were tanking for don't be a possy 

Worry about getting a Little ahead of the game go after future picks

But for the love of God don't stay at 3

Although I have nothing against them moving up for Young, assuming that they don't have to mortgage the future, how do you see the Slay situation working out in Detroit? Are Quinn/Patricia really planning on paying him $12M+, and is Slay even interested in signing? He's clearly a stud, but will turn 30 by the time the 2020 season starts. How does our future at CB look without him?

With the uncertainty surrounding Slay, and the fact that he still has value, is now the time to consider moving him? With a shutdown CB like Okudah sitting as the likely 3rd best prospect in the draft, doesn't it make sense to move on from Slay and take him there?

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5 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

So, you were against the Quinn and Patricia hires at the time?

What does that have to do with anything?

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8 hours ago, Superduperman said:

What does that have to do with anything?

Do you feel that, even if the Lions finish with 10+ wins or earn a playoff berth next year, Quinn and Patricia are still bad at their jobs?

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14 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Although I have nothing against them moving up for Young, assuming that they don't have to mortgage the future, how do you see the Slay situation working out in Detroit? Are Quinn/Patricia really planning on paying him $12M+, and is Slay even interested in signing? He's clearly a stud, but will turn 30 by the time the 2020 season starts. How does our future at CB look without him?

With the uncertainty surrounding Slay, and the fact that he still has value, is now the time to consider moving him? With a shutdown CB like Okudah sitting as the likely 3rd best prospect in the draft, doesn't it make sense to move on from Slay and take him there?

Id trade him but I think u should go after another proven player.. say trade slay for a badass guard and maybe a decent pick. Try get multiple players for him

Like the kid from osu but not top 5 like him. Just don't like the plan of trading slay to be now forced to draft a high one 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

Id trade him but I think u should go after another proven player.. say trade slay for a badass guard and maybe a decent pick. Try get multiple players for him

Like the kid from osu but not top 5 like him. Just don't like the plan of trading slay to be now forced to draft a high one 

 

 

Good deal, makes perfect sense.

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4 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Do you feel that, even if the Lions finish with 10+ wins or earn a playoff berth next year, Quinn and Patricia are still bad at their jobs?

I already explained this is a dumb question because it will not happen. You have to prove to me there's some kind of realistic chance will happen before I will entertain the possibility. The Lions have not earned anyone's hypothetical positive spin on the future.

Furthermore, I refuse to answer this question in good faith because it's not being asked in good faith. You're only trying to steer the conversation back to a positive note, for me to say "ok yeah if they go 10-6 my opinion will change" so you can say "that's a reasonable answer, congratulations" and then we can go forward with the hope that our little dreams will come true. We can totally ignore that Patricia has been so, so bad. That Quinn - in FOUR years, not two - has failed to improve large parts of the team, and it isn't just an understandable part of the rebuilding process, but ongoing tactical mistakes, like leaving two gaping holes in the roster for 2019, pass rush and backup QB, that killed the team's chances to win. Both of these guys objectively deserve to be gone and as far as I see it, the further damage they probably will do in 2020 warrants them being removed immediately. You have no fact-based, football-based refutation for this where you can give me actual reasons I am wrong (I'm not). All you have is "well what if a miracle occurs" and "I'm uncomfortable with change."

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

I already explained this is a dumb question because it will not happen. You have to prove to me there's some kind of realistic chance will happen before I will entertain the possibility. The Lions have not earned anyone's hypothetical positive spin on the future.

Furthermore, I refuse to answer this question in good faith because it's not being asked in good faith. You're only trying to steer the conversation back to a positive note, for me to say "ok yeah if they go 10-6 my opinion will change" so you can say "that's a reasonable answer, congratulations" and then we can go forward with the hope that our little dreams will come true. We can totally ignore that Patricia has been so, so bad. That Quinn - in FOUR years, not two - has failed to improve large parts of the team, and it isn't just an understandable part of the rebuilding process, but ongoing tactical mistakes, like leaving two gaping holes in the roster for 2019, pass rush and backup QB, that killed the team's chances to win. Both of these guys objectively deserve to be gone and as far as I see it, the further damage they probably will do in 2020 warrants them being removed immediately. You have no fact-based, football-based refutation for this where you can give me actual reasons I am wrong (I'm not). All you have is "well what if a miracle occurs" and "I'm uncomfortable with change."

I've given plenty of reasons why it's likely that the team will improve. These are often referred to as "context", something people like you refuse to acknowledge or consider. I'll spell it out carefully. Please, read it all.

Believing that this is only a 3-12-1 roster is ridiculous, as they were 3-4-1 before their starting QB got hurt, which included down-to-the-wire games against playoff teams. Injuries are a factor, and some teams have worse injury luck during a season than others. We had bad injury luck this year.

When Stafford went down, I felt that our chance of making the playoffs, with our current injury-depleted roster, was south of 1%. We could have traded valuable assets for enough older players to finish in the 8-8/9-7 range, and I feel that, although Patricia would've looked "better", losing those assets (draft picks) would have damaged this team for the future, and for little gain in return. Instead, we have the draft value of the 3rd overall pick. I regard this as a wise move by Quinn and Patricia: if you aren't going to make a playoff push, the NFL will reward you for losing. They executed this well, and we were rewarded.

We now enter the 2020 off-season with plenty of cap space and outstanding draft value, with key pieces already on the roster. A decent GM will be able to utilize that draft value and cap space to significantly improve and already competitive team.

With significant improvements (via the available cap space and outstanding draft pick value), a decent coach will be able to turn this competitive team into a team that pushes for a playoff spot.

We're now entering the key 3rd year of the Quinn/Patricia regime. If Quinn is a decent GM, he'll make the moves necessary to improve this team. If Patricia is a decent coach, he'll push this team into contention for a playoff spot. Both outcomes are undoubtedly possible, which is why writing them off before the third year of this regime is nonsensical to me, especially considering their cap space and draft pick value.

I'm not saying that Quinn is a good GM, or that Patricia is a good coach. Based solely on record, they are terrible. When context is considered, they quite simply are not. I don't believe a coach should be fired before their 3rd year anyway, but we enter Patricia's 3rd year in an outstanding position to be successful.

Ifwe are successful in 2020, don't act shocked: it's clear to see why that might happen. And, if we are, I believe that it speaks volumes about Quinn as a GM, and Patricia a coach.

You can ignore this rationale and these reasons, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Edited by TL-TwoWinsAway

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21 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Backwards? What, based on record? Unbelievable.

The lack of context on this board never ceases to amaze me.

Assuming what I said is only based on record? Unbelievable.

Ignoring record as an indicator to how good a team is? Unbelievable.

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1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I've given plenty of reasons why it's likely that the team will improve. These are often referred to as "context", something people like you refuse to acknowledge or consider. I'll spell it out carefully. Please, read it all.

Believing that this is only a 3-12-1 roster is ridiculous, as they were 3-4-1 before their starting QB got hurt, which included down-to-the-wire games against playoff teams. Injuries are a factor, and some teams have worse injury luck during a season than others. We had bad injury luck this year.

When Stafford went down, I felt that our chance of making the playoffs, with our current injury-depleted roster, was south of 1%. We could have traded valuable assets for enough older players to finish in the 8-8/9-7 range, and I feel that, although Patricia would've looked "better", losing those assets (draft picks) would have damaged this team for the future, and for little gain in return. Instead, we have the draft value of the 3rd overall pick. I regard this as a wise move by Quinn and Patricia: if you aren't going to make a playoff push, the NFL will reward you for losing. They executed this well, and we were rewarded.

We now enter the 2020 off-season with plenty of cap space and outstanding draft value, with key pieces already on the roster. A decent GM will be able to utilize that draft value and cap space to significantly improve and already competitive team.

With significant improvements (via the available cap space and outstanding draft pick value), a decent coach will be able to turn this competitive team into a team that pushes for a playoff spot.

We're now entering the key 3rd year of the Quinn/Patricia regime. If Quinn is a decent GM, he'll make the moves necessary to improve this team. If Patricia is a decent coach, he'll push this team into contention for a playoff spot. Both outcomes are undoubtedly possible, which is why writing them off before the third year of this regime is nonsensical to me, especially considering their cap space and draft pick value.

I'm not saying that Quinn is a good GM, or that Patricia is a good coach. Based solely on record, they are terrible. When context is considered, they quite simply are not. I don't believe a coach should be fired before their 3rd year anyway, but we enter Patricia's 3rd year in an outstanding position to be successful.

Ifwe are successful in 2020, don't act shocked: it's clear to see why that might happen. And, if we are, I believe that it speaks volumes about Quinn as a GM, and Patricia a coach.

You can ignore this rationale and these reasons, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. 

You call it the rationale and reasons, but it sounds like blind homerism to me. 

You think losing "down-to-the-wire" games against playoff teams is a good thing? Losers lose those games, winners find a way to win. The Lions, historically and especially under this regime, have been the overwhelming losers. We literally had a 99% win probability against KC in the 4th quarter, and managed to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. A rookie head coach starting a rookie QB in their first ever NFL game erased an 18 point 4th quarter deficit and forced a tie against the Lions. Those kind of embarrassments were almost weekly this season. Close games that result in losses are just as much losses as blowouts. 

Injuries are a factor for every team. Good teams with good coaching overcome injuries. Quinn has had four years to find a capable backup QB, but has failed to do so. Outside of Stafford, we had a relatively healthy roster until we were eliminated from the playoff picture and started putting everyone on IR. Stafford has been one of the most hit pocket QBs in the NFL since he has been drafted. Quinn has failed to get adequate blocking or Patricia and his staff has failed in coaching players up or scheming to protect Stafford. People with back issues in their 30s don't typically get healthier as they get older. Especially if nothing new is done to protect them. 

We had plenty of examples of teams losing QBs for extended periods of time. Other teams managed to weather the storm significantly better than the Lions did. Laughably, Gardner Minshew has a better win loss record as a starter in 2019 than Stafford does.

Quinn and Patricia look to continue to drive away talented players, overpay NE leftovers, keep their incompetent buddies on staff, etc. 

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8 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yep, I had a feeling that you'd just ignore the rationale. Oh well.

If by "ignore" you mean explain why it was homerism...

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2 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

If by "ignore" you mean explain why it was homerism...

There's nothing homerism about it... it's perfectly reasonable.

We were competitive with Stafford, we weren't without him. We have a good chunk of cap space and the 3rd overall pick to further improve the team. If Quinn is a good GM, I expect him to improve the team with those resources. If Patricia is a good coach, I expect this improved team to compete for a playoff spot. If they fail, they quite simply aren't a good GM or coach.

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4 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

There's nothing homerism about it... it's perfectly reasonable.

We were competitive with Stafford, we weren't without him. We have a good chunk of cap space and the 3rd overall pick to further improve the team. If Quinn is a good GM, I expect him to improve the team with those resources. If Patricia is a good coach, I expect this improved team to compete for a playoff spot. If they fail, they quite simply aren't a good GM or coach.

Perfectly reasonable to an apologist homer.

Define competitive. If it only matters in wins and losses, seems like you're ignoring a lot of context. If you watched the games, the Lions were within a score in the fourth quarter in all but one or two games IIRC. Seems competitive to me.

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10 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Perfectly reasonable to an apologist homer.

Define competitive. If it only matters in wins and losses, seems like you're ignoring a lot of context. If you watched the games, the Lions were within a score in the fourth quarter in all but one or two games IIRC. Seems competitive to me.

Perfect! By your own admission, this team was competitive both with and without Stafford. Hats off to Patricia: he managed to keep this team competitive despite a slew of injuries.

I guess the man earned his 3rd season.

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