Texas_OutLaw7 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Calvert28 said: Didn't stutter. Shocking I know for the few of you who thought we were gonna go all the way any year now under JG who can do no wrong but it is true. Yawn. Redball did a ton wrong. But drafting improved significantly under him. I get that the "I-am-a-hater-and-that's-just-my-thing" you love pulling, but that statement is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: Yawn. Redball did a ton wrong. But drafting improved significantly under him. I get that the "I-am-a-hater-and-that's-just-my-thing" you love pulling, but that statement is absurd. Drafting improved with McClay's rise. I mean lets put it this way, if you're the Coach of the team and I as you're director of scouting come to you and you ask me we need to draft a QB so draw up a list. I come back and say "Hey I have 3 outstanding candidates for us, I suggest you choose from Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Patrick Mahomes. But stay away from this Ryan Leaf guy along with Jamarcus Russell, those two I doubt become great starters." Now you have your choice 3 outstanding QB's to choose from, so tell me, you picking any one of them, does it make you a great drafter if I am constantly handing you gold? Again we will see in the upcoming years. But Garrett had a ton to say in the draft room before he even became head coach keep in mind he's had Jerry's ear since being here considering he was Jerry's golden boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: LOL What?! 6 hours ago, WizardHawk said: Gonna need a explanation on this one. I think he is referring to the Taco Charlton pick? Did JG pound the table for him or was that just rumor? The only first round pick we have missed on since Mo Clai. And honestly the jury is still out on just how bad Taco really is. He looked much better in Miami. TJ Watt should have been the pick though. Regardless of scheme. You pick a player like him and make it work. I admittedly was not high on Watt. I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Calvert28 said: You'll get a definitive one in the upcoming years. What kind of an answer is this? I'll have to wait until the new regime does well/bad to find the answer as to whether JG was good or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 hours ago, DaBoys said: I think he is referring to the Taco Charlton pick? Did JG pound the table for him or was that just rumor? The only first round pick we have missed on since Mo Clai. And honestly the jury is still out on just how bad Taco really is. He looked much better in Miami. TJ Watt should have been the pick though. Regardless of scheme. You pick a player like him and make it work. I admittedly was not high on Watt. I was wrong. Looks to me like a blanket statement, which is wrong on laughable levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, WizardHawk said: What kind of an answer is this? I'll have to wait until the new regime does well/bad to find the answer as to whether JG was good or not? Because dont want to accept the fact of the impact McClay has had on the team or Stephen Jones for that matter. It's been a common misconception that because the team does something it's because JG wanted it that way. And if it's a great player gets picked it was because of Garrett and Garrett alone who picked them when that just isnt true. I am willing to bet anything it wasnt JGs idea to shift toward a more run dominated offense in 2014. Especially when it wasnt his idea to have his play calling duties take away from him just half a year before that. People want to give him all the credit for great drafting but JG was in the war room. If I remember correctly was campaigning for Felix Jones over Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles cause he favored receiving backs more for his offense. Which also pleased Jerry because of his hard on for Arkansas players. No the two people who have had the most significant difference on the Cowboys organization has been McClay and Stephen Jones. McClay brought the very best talent to the attention of Jerry and Jason and when he and Stephen finally took over the war room in 2014 from Jerry. That's when everything started changing in the FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, D82 said: Color me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Because dont want to accept the fact of the impact McClay has had on the team or Stephen Jones for that matter. It's been a common misconception that because the team does something it's because JG wanted it that way. And if it's a great player gets picked it was because of Garrett and Garrett alone who picked them when that just isnt true. I don't think anybody believes this to be true. Dallas has always run their drafts with multiple people having a say in what happens. WM, SJ, JG, RM, WW, SL...everyone of them has had a say in or been the deciding push on certain players. Quote I am willing to bet anything it wasnt JGs idea to shift toward a more run dominated offense in 2014. Especially when it wasnt his idea to have his play calling duties take away from him just half a year before that. This is nothing more than an assumption and carries zero weight. Quote People want to give him all the credit for great drafting but JG was in the war room. If I remember correctly was campaigning for Felix Jones over Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles cause he favored receiving backs more for his offense. Which also pleased Jerry because of his hard on for Arkansas players. JG helped change the approach to the draft. I don't know how anyone could argue against that. He may have chosen Jones over the others, but iirc, Dallas was looking for complimentary back to Barber. If we want to revise the draft we could probably do so with every single pick every made. Jerry's hard on for Arkansas players? This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Dallas has drafted exactly one Arkansas player in Jerry's 30 years of ownership. Quote No the two people who have had the most significant difference on the Cowboys organization has been McClay and Stephen Jones. McClay brought the very best talent to the attention of Jerry and Jason and when he and Stephen finally took over the war room in 2014 from Jerry. That's when everything started changing in the FO. And, I'd say the people who had the most influence over the draft are JG and WM. SJ has influenced the club financially and in free agency. Believe he has also had a heavy hand in the departures of Ware, Romo and most definitely Dez. Edited January 29, 2020 by WizardHawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 3 hours ago, WizardHawk said: I don't think anybody believes this to be true. Dallas has always run their drafts with multiple people having a say in what happens. WM, SJ, JG, RM, WW, SL...everyone of them has had a say in or been the deciding push on certain players. Lol "always"? Think again. From 94 to 2009 most made a suggestion and left it at that. Jerry always had the final say and usually that meant him doing something with a bang and for years most dared not say anything except Stephen. 3 hours ago, WizardHawk said: This is nothing more than an assumption and carries zero weight. More like an educated guess considering there is an article detailing why he had play calling duties taken away from him so he could "focus on being a HC". When it comes straight from the FO, it carries far more weight then the next statement you just made. 3 hours ago, WizardHawk said: JG helped change the approach to the draft. I don't know how anyone could argue against that. He may have chosen Jones over the others, but iirc, Dallas was looking for complimentary back to Barber. If we want to revise the draft we could probably do so with every single pick every made. And what are you basing this off of exactly? He brought more discipline to the organization but it is still coincidence that the culture changed when he became HC, and before you say he convinced Jerry to start drafting OL in the first they didn't draft a OL until 2011 the same year McClay was promoted. I mean are you telling me, that just over night Jerry goes from 2009 draft and making Roy Williams trades to just effective stick it out drafting? That was what Jason changed? So what about 2012? Or 2013? How bout the culture of the war room really took a change in 2014 when Stephen in his infamous move told Jerry no to Johnny Manziel when everyone else wouldn't even speak up. Jerry wanted a second opinion but Stephen reiterated that everyone JG including thought Zach was the best prospect for them. A year after the 2013 where veryone including the Dallas FO thought they over drafted Travis Frederick and passed on Floyd for no good reason because of lack of communication. That's when they really got their make over and McClay became a major voice during the offseason almost defacto draft GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 18 hours ago, WizardHawk said: JG helped change the approach to the draft. I don't know how anyone could argue against that. He may have chosen Jones over the others, but iirc, Dallas was looking for complimentary back to Barber. If we want to revise the draft we could probably do so with every single pick every made. If cherry-picked misses were proof of bad drafting, then there has never been a good drafter in the history of football. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) I can't wait to see a Dallas defense that actually gives multiple looks. https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2020/01/29/film-room-3-changes-you-can-expect-cowboys-dc-mike-nolan-to-make-on-dallas-defense/ Edited January 30, 2020 by WizardHawk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9misfit Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 7:16 AM, Nextyearfordaboyz said: If cherry-picked misses were proof of bad drafting, then there has never been a good drafter in the history of football. Agreed. As poor of a head coach as Redball was, I always felt that he added a lot of value with respect to player evaluation in the draft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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