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With Bruce gone


TOUCAN

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15 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

He’s a great player he deserves more money.  I don’t know why you’re so upset with him.

On his current contract, the one he’s so upset about that he quit the Redskins, he’s set to make $14.75M next year. Which is more than Tyron Smith, David Bakhtiari, and Ronnie Stanley. All of whom, in my view, are demonstrably better players at this point, especially when you factor in reliability. 

He wants to be handed a rich extension — and we know it will be rich, because I’m sure offering anything less than all the tea in China would be an insult to Trent and his greatness — despite the fact he hasn’t taken a snap for us (or anyone) since December 2018, when he was out there hobbling around and taking penalties like it was going out of style. By the time he does take a snap for us (or anyone) next September, which is no guarantee given his age injury history, it will have been 20+ months since he was on a football field. 

How about come to some workouts and some minicamps and then to training camp? Maybe play a couple preseason snaps — hell, let’s say even a couple regular seasons games? Show that you can still play at a high level. Right now, he wants us to “pay him” big guaranteed money based solely on the fact that he’s Trent Williams, a guy who was a really good player a while ago. Without any idea how his abilities have been affected by aging, his various injuries, the long layoff, CANCER? That’s insane. 

If he comes in and proves that he’s still Trent Williams, I guess I’d be okay with a 2-3 year extension. Still hesitant to give him guaranteed money, because I don’t trust him — as a person or as a player — but as I said in the other thread, we just don’t have many good options at the position, so our hands are kinda tied. 

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2 minutes ago, e16bball said:

On his current contract, the one he’s so upset about that he quit the Redskins

In a lost season, which helped Bruce get fired.  If anything we should be thanking him for sitting out.

2 minutes ago, e16bball said:

he’s set to make $14.75M next year

Which could be restructured with an extension.

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

All of whom, in my view, are demonstrably better players at this point, especially when you factor in reliability. 

Debatable.

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

He wants to be handed a rich extension — and we know it will be rich, because I’m sure offering anything less than all the tea in China would be an insult to Trent and his greatness

Speculation.

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

despite the fact he hasn’t taken a snap for us (or anyone) since December 2018, when he was out there hobbling around and taking penalties like it was going out of style. By the time he does take a snap for us (or anyone) next September, which is no guarantee given his age injury history, it will have been 20+ months since he was on a football field.

Perhaps the time off will help him overcome all the injuries accumulated over the years.  BTW, he has been willing to play hurt for this organization for years, which should be commended.  

6 minutes ago, e16bball said:

How about come to some workouts and some minicamps and then to training camp? Maybe play a couple preseason snaps — hell, let’s say even a couple regular seasons games? Show that you can still play at a high level. Right now, he wants us to “pay him” big guaranteed money based solely on the fact that he’s Trent Williams, a guy who was a really good player a while ago.

I don't understand why its assumed players have to honor contracts when teams don't.  He only has 1 year left on his deal, he has every right to negotiate for a new one. 

7 minutes ago, e16bball said:

If he comes in and proves that he’s still Trent Williams, I guess I’d be okay with a 2-3 year extension. Still hesitant to give him guaranteed money, because I don’t trust him — as a person or as a player — but as I said in the other thread, we just don’t have many good options at the position, so our hands are kinda tied. 

We have plenty of cap space, a 2-3 year extension right now makes all of this go away.  It would be a good PR move, showing that we support the players, and wouldn't hurt with fan morale.  

Here's the reality too.  Rivera and Dan have no interest in a 2nd round pick for Trent Williams.  They said in their press conference they want to win now.  

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19 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

He’s a great player he deserves more money.  I don’t know why you’re so upset with him. 

If it was just a hold out for money, I think he would A) have gotten more sympathy from Thai, and B) I think he might have gotten paid (or traded).

By hiding behind the whole "they didn't tell me I had cancer" excuse, it made it impossible for the team to make good on a deal.

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Just now, Woz said:

If it was just a hold out for money, I think he would A) have gotten more sympathy from Thai, and B) I think he might have gotten paid (or traded).

By hiding behind the whole "they didn't tell me I had cancer" excuse, it made it impossible for the team to make good on a deal.

I don't think he was hiding behind anything.  I think he felt that the Redskins medical and training staff were both subpar and hurting himself and his teammates.  

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Just now, MKnight82 said:

I don't think he was hiding behind anything.  I think he felt that the Redskins medical and training staff were both subpar and hurting himself and his teammates.  

Maybe so ... but if that is the case, why has money suddenly become an issue? Either it wasn't an issue earlier and the medical staff was the problem (in which case, why the sudden demand) or it was just a smokescreen/sympathetic reason to get more cash.

Yes, he helped Allen get tossed out on his ear (btw, you still have that sig :D ). For that, I would love to have him back. But like @e16bball and @Thaiphoon, I want to see that he can still play at a high level before I would hand him a high value contract extension.

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1 minute ago, Woz said:

Maybe so ... but if that is the case, why has money suddenly become an issue? Either it wasn't an issue earlier and the medical staff was the problem (in which case, why the sudden demand) or it was just a smokescreen/sympathetic reason to get more cash.

Why does it have to be either/or?  He wanted a new contract and he wanted them fired.  

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11 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Why does it have to be either/or?  He wanted a new contract and he wanted them fired.  

That could very easily be the case. However, most of the reports from people who knew Trent (never from him directly or from his people) seemed to hint at that it was the medical staff. The money kind of popped up once in awhile only to be dismissed as not an issue. Until now it is.

Look if he can show he can still do it, then maybe I consider throwing a bit of scratch his way. However, my personal thought is to assume that he's done playing in burgundy and gold and look to the future (either now or next year).

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9 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

In a lost season, which helped Bruce get fired.  If anything we should be thanking him for sitting out.

Which could be restructured with an extension.

Debatable.

Speculation.

Perhaps the time off will help him overcome all the injuries accumulated over the years.  BTW, he has been willing to play hurt for this organization for years, which should be commended.  

I don't understand why its assumed players have to honor contracts when teams don't.  He only has 1 year left on his deal, he has every right to negotiate for a new one. 

We have plenty of cap space, a 2-3 year extension right now makes all of this go away.  It would be a good PR move, showing that we support the players, and wouldn't hurt with fan morale.  

Here's the reality too.  Rivera and Dan have no interest in a 2nd round pick for Trent Williams.  They said in their press conference they want to win now.  

The bottom really, really worries me, especially with how bare Gibbs left the cupboard of draft picks, which really showed in how mismanaged the team was under Zorn.  Shanahan had a huge hole to climb out of.  And this is the problem with a coach-centered approach when they aren't collaborating with someone- their goal is to win, and they forgo the long-term vision that is required to sustain success.  What you see in a coach-centered approach is what Bill O'Brien is doing with Houston in hemorraging draft picks.  Sure it's going to get us wins in the short term, and maybe a division title, but will it be enough to win playoff games?  Will it be enough to sustain success?  It all remains to be seen, but a lot of NFL history is against this working out, and the coach behind this guy can never dig out of it completely.  

As far as Williams goes, he's been out for a year so I doubt they even get a second back for him.  But he's already sat out for a year, so it's on him to show up.  He won't get a huge deal if he sits out two years in a row.  So tell him he needs to show up and put the work in.  If we are losing and want the pick, trade him at the deadline.  If he is a valuable piece for "the future" then get him signed to an extension.  But after sitting for a year, you can't just reward the guy with a new contract.  

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6 hours ago, Woz said:

Maybe so ... but if that is the case, why has money suddenly become an issue? Either it wasn't an issue earlier and the medical staff was the problem (in which case, why the sudden demand) or it was just a smokescreen/sympathetic reason to get more cash.

Yes, he helped Allen get tossed out on his ear (btw, you still have that sig :D ). For that, I would love to have him back. But like @e16bball and @Thaiphoon, I want to see that he can still play at a high level before I would hand him a high value contract extension.

See bolded. It was that IMHO.

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6 hours ago, Woz said:

If it was just a hold out for money, I think he would A) have gotten more sympathy from Thai, and B) I think he might have gotten paid (or traded).

By hiding behind the whole "they didn't tell me I had cancer" excuse, it made it impossible for the team to make good on a deal.

Bingo! Slandering people and hiding behind it to gain sympathy while you hold out for more money is a low character move. 

I want to go on record. I have zero problem with him trying to get more money. I have zero problem with the Redskins deciding that he was under contract for 2 more years and they weren't going to give him more $$. I have a BIG problem with the way he went about it.

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48 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

The bottom really, really worries me, especially with how bare Gibbs left the cupboard of draft picks, which really showed in how mismanaged the team was under Zorn.  Shanahan had a huge hole to climb out of.  And this is the problem with a coach-centered approach when they aren't collaborating with someone- their goal is to win, and they forgo the long-term vision that is required to sustain success.  What you see in a coach-centered approach is what Bill O'Brien is doing with Houston in hemorraging draft picks.  Sure it's going to get us wins in the short term, and maybe a division title, but will it be enough to win playoff games?  Will it be enough to sustain success?  It all remains to be seen, but a lot of NFL history is against this working out, and the coach behind this guy can never dig out of it completely.  

As far as Williams goes, he's been out for a year so I doubt they even get a second back for him.  But he's already sat out for a year, so it's on him to show up.  He won't get a huge deal if he sits out two years in a row.  So tell him he needs to show up and put the work in.  If we are losing and want the pick, trade him at the deadline.  If he is a valuable piece for "the future" then get him signed to an extension.  But after sitting for a year, you can't just reward the guy with a new contract.  

I agree you don't reward him with a new contract, but I would be on telling him right now If you showed up the earliest he wanted to renegotiate your current contract aka add at least 12 million guranteed for this upcoming season in Great Football Shape I would like to make that happen. That than leaves everything on Williams to prove he Really wants to play Football again. 

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6 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I agree you don't reward him with a new contract, but I would be on telling him right now If you showed up the earliest he wanted to renegotiate your current contract aka add at least 12 million guranteed for this upcoming season in Great Football Shape I would like to make that happen. That than leaves everything on Williams to prove he Really wants to play Football again. 

I kind of want him to show he's willing and able to play at that high level before I start talking cash. It doesn't have to be much, maybe a regular season game or two, but I kind of need to see it now because he'll have been off the field for almost two years.

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6 minutes ago, Woz said:

I kind of want him to show he's willing and able to play at that high level before I start talking cash. It doesn't have to be much, maybe a regular season game or two, but I kind of need to see it now because he'll have been off the field for almost two years.

If he's in GREAT FOOTBALL SHAPE, with ALL that he has done here how can you question what he will beable to do on the field? In Football Shape means he's ready to get back out there and do what he does. Don't act like he wasn't one of the best LT's in league or wasn't missed while not out there. 

If He's in shape that tosses out all the BS about him being a pothead and didn't do anything to remain in football shape a Whole Year not injured and not playing Football. Him coming back in Footballl Shape would be important for Both the Player and the Team. Hash it out and Let's get to Work. You have the Money to pay the Man. 

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9 minutes ago, Woz said:

I kind of want him to show he's willing and able to play at that high level before I start talking cash. It doesn't have to be much, maybe a regular season game or two, but I kind of need to see it now because he'll have been off the field for almost two years.

I definitely agree with that, but I’m not sure Trent reports without a new contract. I guess that’s an easy fix though, if he doesn’t report in training camp or at the latest the trade deadline this year bc of his contract then, trade him to someone and we’d end up with an 2021 high draft pick and or player for him.

Edited by turtle28
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