Thaiphoon Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Skins212689 said: If he's in GREAT FOOTBALL SHAPE, with ALL that he has done here how can you question what he will beable to do on the field. In Football Shape means he's ready to get back out there and do what he does. Don't act like he wasn't one of the best LT in league. If He's in shape that tosses out all the BS about him being a pothead and didn't do anything to remain in football shape a Whole Year not injured and not playing Football. Him coming back in Footballl Shape would be important for Both the Player and the Team. Hash it out and Let's get to Work. You have the Money to pay the Man. There's a difference between being in shape and being in football shape. Those are not the same things. He's missed 29 games in the past 4 years (including the last 16 straight). It's safe to assume that he might not be in football shape right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: There's a difference between being in shape and being in football shape. Those are not the same things. He's missed 29 games in the past 4 years (including the last 16 straight). It's safe to assume that he might not be in football shape right now. He's played in at least 13 games in 6 of his 9 years in the league I believe. If he's in Football Shape you can count on him to be on the field. This is Football so yea you have to expect injuries but this player hasn't shown a history of having "Major Injuries" Edited January 5, 2020 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: He's played in at least 13 games in 6 of his 9 years in the league I believe. If he's in Football Shape you can count on him to be on the field. This is Football so yea you have to expect injuries but this player hasn't shown a history of having "Major Injuries" Football shape is different then being in shape. Football shape means he’s in shape to go up and down a football field for 60 to 70 plays. If he hasn’t been working out all year and isn’t in football shape, that’s a problem. I have no idea that he hasn’t, but you have no idea that he has been working out like he would if he was training for and during the season either. It’s a definite concern and it would concern me giving him a contract extension with guaranteed $ if he hasn’t been keeping himself in shape and instead had been lazy smoking weed and working on a weed business all last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Skins212689 said: He's played in at least 13 games in 6 of his 9 years in the league in the league I believe. He's made it through a complete season only twice. In TEN years. Left to Right (season 1 to 10) games started --->>>> 13, 10, 16, 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 13, 0 Notice the trend the last 4 years? Quote If he's in Football Shape you can count on him to be on the field. IF...is a very large caveat. Hasn't taken a single snap in over a year. Quote This is Football so yea you have to expect injuries but this player hasn't shown a history of having "Major Injuries" And yet, I can only count on him for anywhere from 10-13 games a season lately. My point is that I agree that he COULD be in football shape next year. But my opinion is that I highly doubt he will be given the year off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, turtle28 said: Football shape is different then being in shape. Football shape means he’s in shape to go up and down a football field for 60 to 70 plays. If he hasn’t been working out all year and isn’t in football shape, that’s a problem. I have no idea that he hasn’t, but you have no idea that he has been working out like he would if he was training for and during the season either. It’s a definite concern and it would concern me giving him a contract extension with guaranteed $ if he hasn’t been keeping himself in shape and instead had been lazy smoking weed and working on a weed business all last year. It's also the coordination and reaction time to other players. When you are not doing that on a daily basis, those skills retard a bit until you build them back up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: It's also the coordination and reaction time to other players. When you are not doing that on a daily basis, those skills retard a bit until you build them back up. Yes, but that happens every offseason for every player. I guess it would be a concern with Trent bc he didn’t play last year but coordination, athleticism and reaction time for a 330 pound guy is the last thing I’m worried about with Trent Williams, especially with him being a 10 year vet. It’s jut not something he’s ever shown to have an issue with. I would worry that he’s out of shape and not in shape to play football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: If he's in GREAT FOOTBALL SHAPE, with ALL that he has done here how can you question what he will beable to do on the field? In Football Shape means he's ready to get back out there and do what he does. Don't act like he wasn't one of the best LT's in league or wasn't missed while not out there. It's the "if" that starts your statement that is the catch. As @Thaiphoon and @e16bball have said, a contract extension should be based on what the player is going to do not what they have done. I have never disputed that he was one of the best LTs in the league or that they probably would have been better with him on the field this year. 24 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: If He's in shape that tosses out all the BS about him being a pothead and didn't do anything to remain in football shape a Whole Year not injured and not playing Football. Him coming back in Footballl Shape would be important for Both the Player and the Team. Hash it out and Let's get to Work. You have the Money to pay the Man. If it weren't for the fact that the franchise already gotten (unfairly) penalized for using the uncapped year of a CBA once, I would consider creating an extension where he gets a roster bonus paid in 2021 where it would count against the team. Alas, I suspect the NFL owners will once again collude together to depress salaries in an uncapped year and will threaten ambiguous penalties against teams who violate them. Since they've shown themselves to actually go forward with those penalties (and the NFLPA to roll over for them), this probably would not work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 All this BS is how you lose Trent's Agent interest. Like are we really gonna go back and forth about "Football Shape" compared to actually getting the QB's blindside protected and making This Team better. Trent and his Agent would know what I meant by FOOTBALL Shape. Meanning his was able to do all things his was doing in Mini Camp, OTA's, Training Camp, Preseason, and the Regualar Season before this debacle started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I definitely agree with that, but I’m not sure Trent reports without a new contract. If he doesn't report, I trade him. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to play the "will he/won't he" a second year. 24 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I guess that’s an easy fix though, if he doesn’t report in training camp or at the latest the trade deadline this year bc of his contract then, trade him to someone and we’d end up with an 2021 high draft pick and or player for him. Oh, I sure as hell wouldn't wait until the trade deadline. If he doesn't show by the first week of training camp, out the door he goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: He's played in at least 13 games in 6 of his 9 years in the league I believe. If he's in Football Shape you can count on him to be on the field. This is Football so yea you have to expect injuries but this player hasn't shown a history of having "Major Injuries" Keep in mind that a whole new offense is likely going to be installed this offseason due to the new coaching staff. Even if they keep KOC, he wasn't here for that last year so he would need to come up to speed quickly to be effective. In thinking about it, I might make my deadline the mandatory OTAs for this very reason instead of the start of training camp. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Woz said: If he doesn't report, I trade him. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to play the "will he/won't he" a second year. Oh, I sure as hell wouldn't wait until the trade deadline. If he doesn't show by the first week of training camp, out the door he goes. Fair enough, I would though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: All this BS is how you lose Trent's Agent interest. Like are we really gonna go back and forth about "Football Shape" compared to actually getting the QB's blindside protected and making This Team better. Trent and his Agent would know what I meant by FOOTBALL Shape. Meanning his was able to do all things his was doing in Mini Camp, OTA's, Training Camp, Preseason, and the Regualar Season before this debacle started. One other thing to consider: it's not just Trent who needs to get into the system, but also the players around him. Whether the left guard is Ereck Flowers, Wes Martin, Ross Pierschbacher, or someone else, both said guard and Trent need to get in sync and learn their ticks. There's a rhythm to playing on the offensive line ... Trent has been away from that for a year and a half (at least) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Woz said: Keep in mind that a whole new offense is likely going to be installed this offseason due to the new coaching staff. Even if they keep KOC, he wasn't here for that last year so he would need to come up to speed quickly to be effective. In thinking about it, I might make my deadline the mandatory OTAs for this very reason instead of the start of training camp. The Agent/Player in Me- You don't want to pay my Client please just Trade him. I wish you would've last year. You would've had a late 1st round pick and I would've been in New England down 13-14 in the Playoffs. The Fan In Me- He's a Vet, I'm not concerned about that. All players will be learning a new system. Also I wouldn't mind having a late round 1st rounder or the Browns 2nd round pick right now. So are we gonna move forward together or work on a trade during the draft? Edited January 5, 2020 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: The Agent/Player in Me- You don't want to pay my Client please just Trade him. I wish you would've last year. You would've had a late 1st round pick and I would've been in New England down 13-14 in the Playoffs. The GM in Me in response to the Agent in You - have your client show up and show that he's capable of playing professional football at his normal level so I can get a decent return on him and I'll ship him. I'll even be willing to listen to your preferred destinations. If he doesn't show, I'll ship him wherever I can maximize value and if that means sending him to Las Vegas or Cleveland, so be it. 20 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: The Fan In Me- He's a Vet, I'm not concerned about that. All players will be learning a new system. Also I wouldn't mind having a late round 1st rounder or the Browns 2nd round pick right now. The Fan in Me in response to the Fan in You - while he's a vet, he's been away from the game for awhile now. Plus he has zero chemistry with Flowers or Martin because it's unclear if he has even met either guy. It takes time getting that ... "flow" for lack of a better word with the linemen next to you and quarterback behind you, to know their tendencies, their quirks, their rhythms. It's not something you can just study in a playbook. There's a reason that when one guy goes down midgame teams have a hard time. It's not just the drop off in talent, but the loss of that flow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Woz said: The GM in Me in response to the Agent in You - have your client show up and show that he's capable of playing professional football at his normal level so I can get a decent return on him and I'll ship him. I'll even be willing to listen to your preferred destinations. If he doesn't show, I'll ship him wherever I can maximize value and if that means sending him to Las Vegas or Cleveland, so be it. The Fan in Me in response to the Fan in You - while he's a vet, he's been away from the game for awhile now. Plus he has zero chemistry with Flowers or Martin because it's unclear if he has even met either guy. It takes time getting that ... "flow" for lack of a better word with the linemen next to you and quarterback behind you, to know their tendencies, their quirks, their rhythms. It's not something you can just study in a playbook. There's a reason that when one guy goes down midgame teams have a hard time. It's not just the drop off in talent, but the loss of that flow. I take it you lost faith in William's for watever reason so I think it's best from these gatherings you put William's on the Trade Block ASAP and if you get a 2nd round pick offer we can discuss restructuring his deal with that team. If no 2nd round pick is offered, my Client will return when some GUARANTEED money added to his current contract and work his way to more throughout the offseason and season. Meaning showing up to OTA's, Mini Camp, Preseason, ect. Deal or No Deal? Edited January 5, 2020 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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