With Bruce gone

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Now your really tryna play with my Intelligence! Who was gonna trade for him at the deadline? Allen had already hurt his value. You and I know this! 

Your point was that a 1st was offered for him. Yes. His value at that time was a 1st for precisely the reasons i stated. Once they were no longer in play (not early in the season and Trent only on 1 year left) the offers disappeared.

So I seriously doubt anyone offers a 1st now.

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

No because it's your Staff that was the problem! If it wasn't you wouldn't have gotten rid of Allen and your Head Trainer.

Then you actually ARE holding out. Even though you keep claiming you aren't.

And if anything, your holdout completely exposes that this was all about $ and never about Bruce or the medical (not training) staff.

[Skins212689]

5 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Your point was that a 1st was offered for him. Yes. His value at that time was a 1st for precisely the reasons i stated. Once they were no longer in play (not early in the season and Trent only on 1 year left) the offers disappeared.

So I seriously doubt anyone offers a 1st now.

I doubt anyone offers a 1st as well, but the fact We didn't get a 1st for him is on Bruce who isn't here anymore. 

The focus now is doing what it takes to keep Williams here. So with that being said All the talk about him not getting GUARANTEED MONEY needs to stop because thats HIGHLY UNLIKELY at this point. 

If he went into any teams facility and proved he was in Football Shape and would produce as he did before the debacle I believe he could still warrant a 2nd round pick at this point or during the draft. 

[Woz]

57 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

The whole thing about what teams will do and won't do, how do you know this? Do you work in the NFL? Some thought his value wasn't 1st round pick worthy. Guess what, NFL reports stated differently. The Patriots offered the Skins a 1st and the Browns offered multiple different types of offers including players and picks. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.

You be the Boss wherever you work in your personal life, but understand this You aren't a NFL Boss. Trent will get his money no matter wether you think he deserves it or not. It doesn't matter what YOU Vaule him at. It matters what those in the leauge do. Rivera obviously values Trent enough to get a new Head Trainer/Bruce Allen out and more than likely will give him the money needed to be back in a Redskins jersey next season. 

No I don't work in the NFL, but I can project how teams respond based on what they've done in the past.

Consider last year: two star wide receivers, Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham Jr. were traded to two new teams. The Steelers and Brown went back and forward for months, sniping at each other in public, and in the end, the Steelers got a third and a fifth from Oakland in exchange for him. While Beckham and the Giants had a rough relationship, both sides kept their mouths shut and the Giants were able to deal him to the Browns (along with Olivier Vernon) for a first and third round pick (the Giants also got Jabrill Peppers and Kevin Zeitler).

In the same vein, when the Browns and Texans were inquiring about Trent before the season began, he would have netted a first round pick (oh, they could have had #2 and #10 ...). Later, at the trade deadline, when it was clear that both Trent and Washington were at an impasse, the offers fell because both sides had dug in.

 

So there is the Steelers' path: Trent decides to not show up unless he gets more money. The team stands its ground to prevent creating a precedent for future players' trying to hold it for ransom. Teams, seeing that that the relationship is souring, drop their offers further on the expectation that Washington would want to get something rather than nothing. In this scenario, Snyder orders Trent traded to the team with the best value and tiebreakers going to the worst team (to spite Trent on the way out the door).

And then there is the Giants' path: Trent shows up and balls out. The team is glowing in their praise of Trent, but both sides agree that a parting of ways would be in both sides' interest. Trent and his representation can make suggestions of where Trent would want to go, and Washington can quietly inquire. A little back and forth, and then both sides are happy.

 

Trent is more likely to get more money walking the Giants' path. His new team could easily give him an extension right away, and he would likely be in line to getting another contract after that one. Going the Steelers' path, while it might feel better to give Washington one last F-U, is less likely to get things done in a way Trent will want in the long term. Notice that Brown was cut by both the Raiders before the season began, but later by the Patriots after signing him for one week and is currently a free agent. Beckham, on the other hand, is still on the Browns' roster. Brown has a reputation as an unworkable diva, whereas Beckham just had a dispute with the Giants' front office.

[Thaiphoon]

26 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I doubt anyone offers a 1st as well, but the fact We didn't get a 1st for him is on Bruce who isn't here anymore. 

@Woz point was that he's not getting a 1st now.

You backtracked to last year claiming 2 teams offered a 1st.

I pointed out that was under different circumstances.

So you now agree with me and @Woz

Quote

The focus now is doing what it takes to keep Williams here. So with that being said All the talk about him not getting GUARANTEED MONEY needs to stop because thats HIGHLY UNLIKELY at this point. 

Sure. It's stupid to give him guaranteed $ and a huge new contract though. He needs to report first so we can see he's serious about playing for us and is in football shape (and giving us the ammunition to ask for a trade from another team).

Quote

If he went into any teams facility and proved he was in Football Shape and would produce as he did before the debacle I believe he could still warrant a 2nd round pick at this point or during the draft. 

Only way he's gonna do that is to...ya know...

...show up.

[Thaiphoon]

5 minutes ago, Woz said:

No I don't work in the NFL, but I can project how teams respond based on what they've done in the past.

Consider last year: two star wide receivers, Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham Jr. were traded to two new teams. The Steelers and Brown went back and forward for months, sniping at each other in public, and in the end, the Steelers got a third and a fifth from Oakland in exchange for him. While Beckham and the Giants had a rough relationship, both sides kept their mouths shut and the Giants were able to deal him to the Browns (along with Olivier Vernon) for a first and third round pick (the Giants also got Jabrill Peppers and Kevin Zeitler).

In the same vein, when the Browns and Texans were inquiring about Trent before the season began, he would have netted a first round pick (oh, they could have had #2 and #10 ...). Later, at the trade deadline, when it was clear that both Trent and Washington were at an impasse, the offers fell because both sides had dug in.

 

So there is the Steelers' path: Trent decides to not show up unless he gets more money. The team stands its ground to prevent creating a precedent for future players' trying to hold it for ransom. Teams, seeing that that the relationship is souring, drop their offers further on the expectation that Washington would want to get something rather than nothing. In this scenario, Snyder orders Trent traded to the team with the best value and tiebreakers going to the worst team (to spite Trent on the way out the door).

And then there is the Giants' path: Trent shows up and balls out. The team is glowing in their praise of Trent, but both sides agree that a parting of ways would be in both sides' interest. Trent and his representation can make suggestions of where Trent would want to go, and Washington can quietly inquire. A little back and forth, and then both sides are happy.

 

Trent is more likely to get more money walking the Giants' path. His new team could easily give him an extension right away, and he would likely be in line to getting another contract after that one. Going the Steelers' path, while it might feel better to give Washington one last F-U, is less likely to get things done in a way Trent will want in the long term. Notice that Brown was cut by both the Raiders before the season began, but later by the Patriots after signing him for one week and is currently a free agent. Beckham, on the other hand, is still on the Browns' roster. Brown has a reputation as an unworkable diva, whereas Beckham just had a dispute with the Giants' front office.

That's silly @Woz. Because this was about the medical staff and Bruce Allen. He's mentally hurt and needs compensation before he sets foot in the building.

In all seriousness, tt's going to be the Steelers' path if we end up getting rid of him. He's literally poisoned the well in terms of getting any value from him now.

Or we can do the typical Dan Snyder move and pony up a massive contract for an aging player who isn't going to last the entire contract.

[turtle28]

11 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

That's silly @Woz. Because this was about the medical staff and Bruce Allen. He's mentally hurt and needs compensation before he sets foot in the building.

In all seriousness, tt's going to be the Steelers' path if we end up getting rid of him. He's literally poisoned the well in terms of getting any value from him now.

Or we can do the typical Dan Snyder move and pony up a massive contract for an aging player who isn't going to last the entire contract.

It’s going to be option B, and I think Ron wants Trent too bc he knows protecting a young QBs blindside is one of the most important things for developing a young QB.

It just is what it is. We continue to complain and complain about it, but that’s not going to change the most likely scenario.

[MKnight82]

23 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

That's silly @Woz. Because this was about the medical staff and Bruce Allen. He's mentally hurt and needs compensation before he sets foot in the building.

In all seriousness, tt's going to be the Steelers' path if we end up getting rid of him. He's literally poisoned the well in terms of getting any value from him now.

Or we can do the typical Dan Snyder move and pony up a massive contract for an aging player who isn't going to last the entire contract.

He doesn’t need a massive contract extension.  Add like two years to the deal, make a big public plea about how much we want him back and he will show up.

[TheGreeK1973]

So I guess Cousins wasn't good enough for Brucie Allen.  This egomaniac destroyed the Redskins organization.  Lets hope Rivera can turn it around.

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

He doesn’t need a massive contract extension.  Add like two years to the deal, make a big public plea about how much we want him back and he will show up.

That's what I think too.

[Skins212689]

He will get his Guaranteed money @Woz and @Thaiphoon is my main point. The money you both seem to think he has to prove something first for. Rivera isn't making him prove anything. He just wants him back.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

In all seriousness, tt's going to be the Steelers' path if we end up getting rid of him. He's literally poisoned the well in terms of getting any value from him now.

It doesn't have to be. It would require a bit of de-escalation on both sides' part, with the understanding that both sides' would get what they want.

But it would require a bit of trust and swallowing of pride on both sides. Something that hasn't been shown to be in place at this juncture.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

It’s going to be option B, and I think Ron wants Trent too bc he knows protecting a young QBs blindside is one of the most important things for developing a young QB.

It just is what it is. We continue to complain and complain about it, but that’s not going to change the most likely scenario.

That would also occur due to the fact that the coach has near-to-final control over player personnel. Which is problematic.

[turtle28]

12 minutes ago, Woz said:

It doesn't have to be. It would require a bit of de-escalation on both sides' part, with the understanding that both sides' would get what they want.

But it would require a bit of trust and swallowing of pride on both sides. Something that hasn't been shown to be in place at this juncture.

Yes, bc Bruce Allen wouldn't back down and wouldn't meet with Trent about it. He just expected Trent to report bc Trent was under contract.

[Woz]

37 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

He will get his Guaranteed money @Woz and @Thaiphoon is my main point. The money you both seem to think he has to prove something first for. Rivera isn't making him prove anything. He just wants him back.

And I said you're probably right because Rivera wants him back. Coaches have an understandably short-term perspective. Outside of the season, they've got a six-to-twelve month consideration window where they're focusing on prepping for the season; during the season, that window is no more than a month if not a single week. Anything beyond that is beyond a head coach's purview.

HOWEVER, that is the responsibility of the GM. They need to be looking 2-3 years out, evaluating the cap, considering when players' contracts expire, what the market might look like, is the player living up to his current contact, or would it be better to cut them.

Because of that short-term thinking, Rivera (the coach) absolutely wants to bring Williams back. Rivera (the GM) probably should be a bit more hesitant. Unfortunately, Rivera has lots of experience thinking like a coach and little thinking like a GM. It's why I and @naptownskinsfan and a few others have said that the lack of a GM is going to be a problem. Bill Belichick is perhaps the only coach who can effectively think like a coach and a GM. Yes, teams have hired the coach before the GM and that seems to be the thing of late, but history says that unless they both get on the same page quickly (within a couple of months if not less), it likely isn't going to work.

So, yes, you are probably right that Williams comes back and gets paid by Washington. The question is that the right thing for this franchise going forward?