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With Bruce gone


TOUCAN

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1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, bc Bruce Allen wouldn't back down and wouldn't meet with Trent about it. He just expected Trent to report bc Trent was under contract.

Except Allen isn't here now. Trent can get his money if he shows up without preconditions or talking about money before showing up.

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14 minutes ago, Woz said:

That would also occur due to the fact that the coach has near-to-final control over player personnel. Which is problematic.

I don't think it matters. But we’ll see. I trust Ron Rivera. It was working for us when we had Joe Gibbs and he had final say and I trust Rivera’s judgment on personnel more than Gibbs’. Gibbs was a great coach but he made some awful decisions in terms of who to draft and with trades, of course Gibbs’ issue was that he let Dan and Vinny handle most of that stuff, Joe just had final say.

I trust Rivera and I’m going to trust him until proven wrong about him.

Edited by turtle28
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1 minute ago, Woz said:

And I said you're probably right because Rivera wants him back. Coaches have an understandably short-term perspective. Outside of the season, they've got a six-to-twelve month consideration window where they're focusing on prepping for the season; during the season, that window is no more than a month if not a single week. Anything beyond that is beyond a head coach's purview.

HOWEVER, that is the responsibility of the GM. They need to be looking 2-3 years out, evaluating the cap, considering when players' contracts expire, what the market might look like, is the player living up to his current contact, or would it be better to cut them.

Because of that short-term thinking, Rivera (the coach) absolutely wants to bring Williams back. Rivera (the GM) probably should be a bit more hesitant. Unfortunately, Rivera has lots of experience thinking like a coach and little thinking like a GM. It's why I and @naptownskinsfan and a few others have said that the lack of a GM is going to be a problem. Bill Belichick is perhaps the only coach who can effectively think like a coach and a GM. Yes, teams have hired the coach before the GM and that seems to be the thing of late, but history says that unless they both get on the same page quickly (within a couple of months if not less), it likely isn't going to work.

So, yes, you are probably right that Williams comes back and gets paid by Washington. The question is that the right thing for this franchise going forward?

Great post.  History also tells us that the successful marriages of the head coach and executive are collaborative.  As I've painstakingly outlined, Carroll and Scheider were hired within a week of each other in Seattle.  Andy Reid came with executives he knew and worked with in Philadelphia when he took over in Kansas City.  John Lynch was hired a week before Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco.  In Buffalo, it seems that Pegula didn't want to upset the apple cart and let Whaley stay on until the draft was finished, and so they brought in someone he knew from Carolina to work with McDermott.  

So if Rivera is truly on board with Kyle Smith (whose father he worked with in San Diego) or Morocco Brown, and its solely the decision of Riveram that's fine with me.  However, if Snyder brings in Rick Smith, who presented his own plan of turning the franchise around and puts him in the same room with Rivera and expects the two of them to figure it out, we've put ourselves back into the same situation as before.  

I just hope we end the Williams saga one way or another.  As Webby would say, it's time to get back to football.  

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5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don't think it matters. But we’ll see. I trust Ron Rivera. It was working for us when we had Joe Gibbs and he had final say and I trust Rivera’s judgment on personnel more than Gibbs’. Gibbs was a great coach but he made some awful decisions in terms of who to draft and with trades, of course Gibbs’ issue was that he let Dan and Vinny handle most of that stuff, Joe just had final say.

I trust Rivera and I’m going to trust him until proven wrong about him.

I think you want to re-read what you just wrote. You said it was working for Washington under Gibbs when he had final say but that Gibbs made awful decisions but that those were the responsibility of Snyder and Vinny (which begs whether he had final say).

But the simple fact that you said "[Gibbs] made some awful decisions in terms of who to draft and with trades" should make you more wary of giving Rivera that sort power as Gibbs was WAY more of a coach than Rivera is.

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36 minutes ago, Woz said:

I think you want to re-read what you just wrote. You said it was working for Washington under Gibbs when he had final say but that Gibbs made awful decisions but that those were the responsibility of Snyder and Vinny (which begs whether he had final say).

But the simple fact that you said "[Gibbs] made some awful decisions in terms of who to draft and with trades" should make you more wary of giving Rivera that sort power as Gibbs was WAY more of a coach than Rivera is.

Nope, I know what I believe. I’ve explained it. I think Rivera knows this modern era of the NfL better than Gibbs and I don’t think he’s going to agree and let people like a Dan Snyder or Vinny make decisions for him, Gibbs did allow it. I also think that Rivera knows how to build a defense better than Gibbs did and that has been our main problem all decade as we had offensive head coaches who didn’t care about the defense as much or know how to build one.

Edited by turtle28
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11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Nope, I know what I believe. I’ve explained it. I think Rivera knows this modern era of the NfL better than Gibbs and I don’t think he’s going to agree and let people like a Dan Snyder or Vinny make decisions for him, Gibbs did allow it. I also think that Rivera knows how to build a defense better than Gibbs did and that has been out main problem all decade as we had offensive head coaches who didn’t care about the defense as much or know how to build one.

From the mouth of Rivera, he said in his press conference that if his group couldn't come to a consensus, Dan Snyder is the tiebreaker.  Not Rivera.  Snyder.  

If it hasn't happened so often before, it would terrify me.  Instead, it's business as usual, nothing to see here.  He's learned nothing.  

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15 minutes ago, Woz said:

I think you want to re-read what you just wrote. You said it was working for Washington under Gibbs when he had final say but that Gibbs made awful decisions but that those were the responsibility of Snyder and Vinny (which begs whether he had final say).

But the simple fact that you said "[Gibbs] made some awful decisions in terms of who to draft and with trades" should make you more wary of giving Rivera that sort power as Gibbs was WAY more of a coach than Rivera is.

The other thing with this is that, knowing how Snyder let Allen do what he did, means he let Gibbs do everything he wanted to do.  As I stated in the Allen case, he's Redskins Royalty.  Gibbs is Royalty x10 for Snyder.  I guarantee he had complete control of what was going on.  

With Rivera even saying that Snyder is the tiebreaker here means he intends to be involved.  And one of the writers even said Gibbs told Rivera that Snyder is good to work with, so long as he is informed "early and often" or something to that effect.  

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27 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Nope, I know what I believe. I’ve explained it. I think Rivera knows this modern era of the NfL better than Gibbs and I don’t think he’s going to agree and let people like a Dan Snyder or Vinny make decisions for him, Gibbs did allow it. I also think that Rivera knows how to build a defense better than Gibbs did and that has been out main problem all decade as we had offensive head coaches who didn’t care about the defense as much or know how to build one.

Come again? Washington's best defenses of the past twenty years were under Gibbs.

I hope you're right about Rivera.

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1 hour ago, Woz said:

It doesn't have to be. It would require a bit of de-escalation on both sides' part, with the understanding that both sides' would get what they want.

Agreed.

Quote

But it would require a bit of trust and swallowing of pride on both sides. Something that hasn't been shown to be in place at this juncture.

 

Which is why it most likely won't happen.

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2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

He doesn’t need a massive contract extension.  Add like two years to the deal, make a big public plea about how much we want him back and he will show up.

Two years of a lot of guaranteed money. Which is basically going to be a 5 year deal to amortize it correctly. Because Trent William$ is gonna want a large financial bandaid for his wounded ego. 

H's already under contract for one more year. A year in the contract that contains no guaranteed $$... because he already received it earlier in the contract.

So let's say you're correct. We give him a 2 year extension (no 5 year contract) and he blows through the guaranteed $ portion of the contract. 

What's stopping him from doing this all over again and blaming the janitorial staff this time so he can get more guaranteed $?

I mean, if we follow your preferred path, we end up giving in and paying up and rewarding bad behavior. So why would he honor that deal either?

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19 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Two years of a lot of guaranteed money. Which is basically going to be a 5 year deal to amortize it correctly. Because Trent William$ is gonna want a large financial bandaid for his wounded ego. 

H's already under contract for one more year. A year in the contract that contains no guaranteed $$... because he already received it earlier in the contract.

So let's say you're correct. We give him a 2 year extension (no 5 year contract) and he blows through the guaranteed $ portion of the contract. 

What's stopping him from doing this all over again and blaming the janitorial staff this time so he can get more guaranteed $?

I mean, if we follow your preferred path, we end up giving in and paying up and rewarding bad behavior. So why would he honor that deal either?

Because I doubt his GM gets in a pissing match with him again.

Look, the redskins have a bad reputation for treating their players like crap during the Bruce Allen era.  Throwing some money towards their top player and kissing his *** a little wouldn’t hurt.

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1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

Because I doubt his GM gets in a pissing match with him again.

Look, the redskins have a bad reputation for treating their players like crap during the Bruce Allen era.  Throwing some money towards their top player and kissing his *** a little wouldn’t hurt.

To Snyder money aint a thang

 

Bruce though made it about his ego and didnt take care of the in house guys

 

he is everything thats wrong with owners but guy we can not say is a cheap

Edited by Vladimir L
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