Andrew Berry's Philosophy & the Sashi-DePo-Berry Era Revisited

[mistakey]

3 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Coleman was an analytics and consensus pick.

Kizer was the last QB standing and at 52 in the 2nd the consensus was on taking that gamble.

Tearing down the house to get 90 Million wasn't hard at all.

Anyone can bulldozer a house. It's building the foundation and house that is the difficult part.

not what im hearing.  analytics decided to do the trade down, but hue wanted coleman.  if htats a consensus then sure.

actually, not anyone can bulldozer a house.  we managed to mess that up a couple times too.  

[cortes02]

I will forever be grateful to Sashi Brown for "conveniently forgetting" to fax in the paperwork for the ridiculous AJ McCarron trade.  The man laid on the sword for the betterment of the overall team.  I know people hated the egg heads but I would have liked to have seen what they could have done with a couple of more seasons.  Especially having the 1st overall pick in 2018.  I know people have said that analytics had Baker over everyone but I have this feeling they would not have picked him for some reason.  Oh well, it is what it is. On to a new regime.

Peace!!!

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

32 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Coleman was an analytics and consensus pick.

He had elite speed, very good physical measurable all around (sans height which isn’t terribly relevant) and elite production. 

You live with those kind of misses.

32 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Kizer was the last QB standing and at 52 in the 2nd the consensus was on taking that gamble.

Taking Kizer wasn’t the problem.

How he was “developed” was.

32 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Tearing down the house to get 90 Million wasn't hard at all.

Anyone can bulldozer a house. It's building the foundation and house that is the difficult part.

Eh, you’re selling short the patience and nuts it takes to do it right as well as some clever moves (Andy Lee for a 4th, taking on Osweiler for Nick Chubb, etc).

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, cortes02 said:

I will forever be grateful to Sashi Brown for "conveniently forgetting" to fax in the paperwork for the ridiculous AJ McCarron trade.  The man laid on the sword for the betterment of the overall team. 

Oh yeah, and this.

This alone should get him a damned statue.

[Mind Character]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He had elite speed, very good physical measurable all around (sans height which isn’t terribly relevant) and elite production. 

You live with those kind of misses.

Taking Kizer wasn’t the problem.

How he was “developed” was.

Eh, you’re selling short the patience and nuts it takes to do it right as well as some clever moves (Andy Lee for a 4th, taking on Osweiler for Nick Chubb, etc).

That Andy Lee trade was indeed a great one. I forgot about that one.

I never meant to imply that taking Kizer was a problem. It made sense all around. Just meant to suggest that when looking at those draft we can't count Kizer as a hit.

Not sure I agree with "live with those misses" as the key ingredient with Corey may have been deficient football character and commitment to the game. Though the injuries were absolutely not his fault. Players get injured. He didn't seem to have the mental toughness to weather hard coaching. To be fair, not a lot of players do; even good players.

All in all, I'm just not sure that looking at the draft record during that era is something can be seen as favorable.... and that's without comparing it to Dorsey or whatever.

I've said it before: If the goal was to tank historically, accumulate a ton of assets and cap space then Sashi/DePo/Berry were the greatest of all time. If the goal was to add many foundation players/pieces during that time, then their greatness tumbles to mediocrity.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

Quote

I've said it before: If the goal was to tank historically, accumulate a ton of assets and cap space then Sashi/DePo/Berry were the greatest of all time. If the goal was to add many foundation players/pieces during that time, then their greatness tumbles to mediocrity.

It’s hard to look at their goal as being adding many functional pieces when they consistently deferred assets for greater future assets.

At no point did they ever use all of their allotted assets.

I view Sashi and Co as trying to rehab an old mansion on a strict budget.  It can be done with time, patience and some careful planning.

Dorsey was given the same mansion with some of the foundation poured, a treasure chest of high end building supplies and a blank check.

[Rod Johnson]

4 hours ago, Mind Character said:

John Dorsey deserves plenty of criticism regarding decisions he's responsible for.

However, the disdain for Dorsey has led a lot of people to distort the record of the Sashi/DePodesta/Berry Era.

There's so much revisionist history going on regarding the DePo, Sashi, and Andrew Berry Era it has my head spinning.

They are all brilliant and shepherded us through a well-organized historic 2-year tank in order for us to accumulate draft capital

Even taking into account that the goal was to tank and build through the draft, their overall personnel decisions an evaluations were not good at all.

There's a place for Paul DePodesta in our organization as a lead strategist who has more power in a coaching search and advising draft strategy/personnel decisions, but giving him final say over football decisions or evaluation would be a mistake.

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2016 NFL Draft:

1    15    Corey Coleman    WR    Baylor
2    32    Emmanuel Ogbah    DE    Oklahoma State
3    65    Carl Nassib    DE    Penn State
3    76    Shon Coleman    T    Auburn
3    93    Cody Kessler    QB    USC
4    99    Joe Schobert    OLB    Wisconsin
4    114    Ricardo Louis    WR    Auburn
4    129    Derrick Kindred    SAF    Texas Christian
4    138    Seth DeValve    WR    Princeton
5    154    Jordan Payton    WR    UCLA
5    168    Spencer Drango    G    Baylor
5    172    Rashard Higgins    WR    Colorado State
5    173    Trey Caldwell    DB    Louisiana-Monroe
7    250    Scooby Wright    LB    Arizona

2016 Coaching Search Evaluations:

1.) Sean McDermott reportedly evaluated as the number 1 candidate over Hue Jackson

2016 Free Agents:

1.) OL Alvin Bailey, 2.) LB Justin Tuggle, 3.) LB Demario Davis, 4.) S Rahim Moore, 5.) LB Tank Carder, 6.) QB Robert Griffin, 7.) Don Jones, 8.) Austin Paztor, 9.) Terrelle Pryor

2016 NFL QB Evaluations:

1.) Carson Wentz not a top-20 QB

2.) Jared Goff QB1

2017 NFL Draft:

1    Myles Garrett    DE    Texas A&M
1    25    Jabrill Peppers    SAF    Michigan
1    29    David Njoku    TE    Miami (Fla.)
2    52    DeShone Kizer    QB    Notre Dame
3    65    Larry Ogunjobi    DT    North Carolina-Charlotte
4    126    Howard Wilson    CB    Houston
5    160    Roderick Johnson    T    Florida State
6    185    Caleb Brantley    DT    Florida
7    224    Zane Gonzalez    K    Arizona State
7    252    Matt Dayes    RB    North Carolina State

2017 NFL Free Agents:

1.) Kevin Zeitler, 2.) JC Tretter, 3.) WR Kenny Britt, 4.) Tyvis Powell, 5.) Marcus Martin, 6.) Jason McCourty, 7.) Matt McCants, 8.) James Wright, 9.) Brett Maher

2017 QB Evaluations:

1.) Mitchell Trubisky ranked ahead of Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes

2.) Trading from 12th to 25th + Receiving a future 1st round pick was desired instead of taking Deshaun Watson at 12.

2016+2017 Trades of Note:

1.) Got a 2nd round pick for taking on Brock Osweiler's contract

2.) Acquired Jamie Collins for a 3rd round pick

2018 Coaching Search Evaluations:

1.) Kevin Stefanski reportedly evaluated as the number 1 candidate over Freddie Kitchens

 

I was certainly glad we moved on from them when our assets peaked and it was time to start hitting picks and free agents.  Where we whiffed was acting like we could hire a nobody HC and get by on talent.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Rod Johnson

[braylon]

Idk man... this isn't helping your case IMO. Numerous high end starters and plenty of depth in the two drafts.. Assembled a pretty good offensive line. And then they would've taken Baker. 

[big poppa pump]

47 minutes ago, braylon said:

Idk man... this isn't helping your case IMO. Numerous high end starters and plenty of depth in the two drafts.. Assembled a pretty good offensive line. And then they would've taken Baker. 

I think it absolutely helps his case.  I see mostly bums on that list..  Add hue to the mix with no qb and a practice squad roster....you get 1 win in 2 years.

[matt27j]

Got shmoozed by Britt. Worst effort I've seen out of a fa signing and there's been plenty whocame to cle just to cash in. 

[Kiwibrown]

Sachi didnt get proper prwp time on the 2016 draft, it was betternimo than dorseys 2nd draft and iverall a better off season. 

Dorseys off seasom led to a 1.5 game regression with a decent qb, while sachis had a 1 game regression after listening to hue on qb. Whay did sachi in was havig hue as his coach and trying to work with him.

[BooyaCS09]

It was a phased approach.

Phase 1: Gut the roster and build assets and a young core

Phase 2: Supplement the core and start competing.

Phase 3: Build long term sustainability 

Phase 4 championships

So we are just starting phase 3.  We have a better roster and with the proper supplements to that roster we should have long term sustainability.  2 key components HC and GM

[cattleman78]

We should have kept Mitchell  Schwartz. He was really coming on.

[JDD]

52 minutes ago, cattleman78 said:

We should have kept Mitchell  Schwartz. He was really coming on.

Yeah we should have. Some idiot signed him in KC though. 

[big poppa pump]

35 minutes ago, JDD said:

Yeah we should have. Some idiot signed him in KC though. 

That probably put them in salary cap hell though.