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Bobby816

2019/2020 Offseason

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5 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Jacksonville will franchise Ngakoue before they’d let him go. Dupree and Fowler are the 2 best guys that realistically might hit FA.

I always liked Dupree and his speed is the truth.  Him with JJ and Basham and Copleand for rotation is a good place to be. 

Then concentrate on Oline in FA and via trade and draft Lamb

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I think a realistic FA target could be LT Jason Peters.  Eagles seem to ready to move on to their 1st round from this past draft, Andre Dillard at LT and Peters says he wants to continue playing.  Obviously has ties to Douglas and is still one of the higher graded tackles in the league, could be a nice one year deal and a bridge to our future LT.  Say draft Wirfs or Wills, let them play their natural RT for the season, have Peters at LT and see through camps and practices, preseason etc if they have the potential talent to switch over to LT in 2021

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Posted (edited)

So what does Gase look for from his skilled players?

From the slot, he seems to like smart shifty players. Crowded seems like a great match.

What about RB? In Miami, he seemed to prefer Drake over Ajayi. He also seems to like a committee approach. Anyone know why he didn’t like Ajayi? 
 

What about outside receivers? He had success in Denver with big receivers like Decker and D Thomas. He clearly likes D Thomas since he brought him back. Has Gase said what he likes about him?

Im trying to understand what the perfect Gase roster looks like. 
 

Edit: looked up some quotes from Gase on Thomas. He said Thomas is Smart and Versatile. He said he’s a big man that can run. A player that you get the ball in his hands and let him run. Somewhat consistent to why he likes Crowder. Smart and good after the catch. But it seems like he wants that type of player but just a bigger body. If only Enunwa could stay healthy. Seems like he would be a match.  

Edited by SDotNova

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15 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

So what does Gase look for from his skilled players?

From the slot, he seems to like smart shifty players. Crowded seems like a great match.

What about RB? In Miami, he seemed to prefer Drake over Ajayi. He also seems to like a committee approach. Anyone know why he didn’t like Ajayi? 
 

What about outside receivers? He had success in Denver with big receivers like Decker and D Thomas. He clearly likes D Thomas since he brought him back. Has Gase said what he likes about him?

Im trying to understand what the perfect Gase roster looks like. 

I'm not trying to be funny because I don't like him, but there isn't any clear evidence on what he really likes or what actually works for him. Every OC looked good with Peyton Manning, so I don't know how to judge it. Some people on here believe he likes shifty/route WRs, but Landry apparently had to ask him to expand the route tree before Gase got mad at him. Parker didn't workout and Amendola ended up as his leading WR. He only spent a year in Chicago and nothing worked there. 

Bringing back D.Thomas was probably a bigger sign to the type of WRs he likes, but we were also desperate for a #2 WR after Enunwa getting hurt. So he probably just went with the familiar WR to fill in the gap. 

I think he and JD will work together this offseason, but JD will have to decide if he's willing to pass up some talented players in the draft because they don't fit what gase want on offense or if he's going to build the team the best way he can.  

 

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8 hours ago, SDotNova said:

So what does Gase look for from his skilled players?

From the slot, he seems to like smart shifty players. Crowded seems like a great match.

What about RB? In Miami, he seemed to prefer Drake over Ajayi. He also seems to like a committee approach. Anyone know why he didn’t like Ajayi? 
 

What about outside receivers? He had success in Denver with big receivers like Decker and D Thomas. He clearly likes D Thomas since he brought him back. Has Gase said what he likes about him?

Im trying to understand what the perfect Gase roster looks like. 
 

Edit: looked up some quotes from Gase on Thomas. He said Thomas is Smart and Versatile. He said he’s a big man that can run. A player that you get the ball in his hands and let him run. Somewhat consistent to why he likes Crowder. Smart and good after the catch. But it seems like he wants that type of player but just a bigger body. If only Enunwa could stay healthy. Seems like he would be a match.  

Route technicians. Guys who can make plays after the catch and find the holes in defenses to get open. Q would be a prime example of what he likes. I think Smith can continue to develop into a solid addition as well. His offense is timing based, every route works in sync with one another and while you can say well doesn’t every team do that? No. For some it’s go get open. He wants to put option routes on the field for guys to react post snap as well. That takes both the receiver and Sam seeing the same thing. It’s a beautiful offense when it works but it’s complicated and can get messy when things aren’t going well(this is why pass protection is so important)

Versatility in backs is important as well simply because it allows you check in and out of plays. Bell is a perfect fit skill set wise despite his struggles this season.

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Seems Gase mainly just doesn't like people who challenge anything he does. Landry is protypical WR as to what he likes, but they didn't see eye to eye so he traded him. No offense but these are men. Shouldn't have this power struggle. The best oaches are the ones that can deal with all types of players. Talk to different guys differently, etc. Gase doesn't and cant do that. And he hasn't earned the right for us to trust him.

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10 hours ago, rickyt31 said:

I'm not trying to be funny because I don't like him, but there isn't any clear evidence on what he really likes or what actually works for him. Every OC looked good with Peyton Manning, so I don't know how to judge it. Some people on here believe he likes shifty/route WRs, but Landry apparently had to ask him to expand the route tree before Gase got mad at him. Parker didn't workout and Amendola ended up as his leading WR. He only spent a year in Chicago and nothing worked there. 

Bringing back D.Thomas was probably a bigger sign to the type of WRs he likes, but we were also desperate for a #2 WR after Enunwa getting hurt. So he probably just went with the familiar WR to fill in the gap. 

I think he and JD will work together this offseason, but JD will have to decide if he's willing to pass up some talented players in the draft because they don't fit what gase want on offense or if he's going to build the team the best way he can.  

 

I agree. Everyone speaks about the Gase offense. I honestly dont know what it is. 
 

I went back and listened to what players were saying in training camp and what Gase said throughout his career.

Im 100% sure he does not like players who feel the offense should go through him. No TO types. Enunwa actually said in preseason that Gase’s offense attacks weaknesses. 
 

He did say part of the reason he liked Thomas was that he knew the system. He also said Thomas fit what he is trying to do. 
 

Pure guess but I think he wants smart, reliable YAC players. He doesn’t want go to players. JD wants to build through the trenches. JD is super clear about that. The only way I see this working is to just spend money on the OL and get reasonable guys who fit the system at skill positions. He doesn’t seem like a coach who is going to change. JD is going to have to get him squares if that what fits.

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2 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Route technicians. Guys who can make plays after the catch and find the holes in defenses to get open. Q would be a prime example of what he likes. I think Smith can continue to develop into a solid addition as well. His offense is timing based, every route works in sync with one another and while you can say well doesn’t every team do that? No. For some it’s go get open. He wants to put option routes on the field for guys to react post snap as well. That takes both the receiver and Sam seeing the same thing. It’s a beautiful offense when it works but it’s complicated and can get messy when things aren’t going well(this is why pass protection is so important)

Versatility in backs is important as well simply because it allows you check in and out of plays. Bell is a perfect fit skill set wise despite his struggles this season.

Nice post. I came to similar conclusions after going back and listening to interviews. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Seems Gase mainly just doesn't like people who challenge anything he does. Landry is protypical WR as to what he likes, but they didn't see eye to eye so he traded him. No offense but these are men. Shouldn't have this power struggle. The best oaches are the ones that can deal with all types of players. Talk to different guys differently, etc. Gase doesn't and cant do that. And he hasn't earned the right for us to trust him.

The biggest issue Landry had with Gase is that Gase used him the same way we used Crowder- 70% of the time in the slot. Landry made a fuss about it and wanted to play more outside-purely out of ego (see this year)-but Gase disagreed, saying that the offense worked better when Landry was in the slot because even if he was a solid "outside" receiver, it created a void elsewhere in the offense. The same thing happened this year; when our injuries piled up, Gase cited how it was commendable for Crowder to move out of position for the sake of the team - it wasn't because Crowder wanted to, it was because Berrios was their next best receiver at the time, and the Jets viewed Crowder (Z) / Berrios (slot) > Bellamy (Z) / Crowder (slot). 

Don't get me wrong, Gase is absolutely stubborn and clearly has an ego, but he was right about Jarvis Landry: he's a diva slot receiver. 

As far as schemes, a popular misconception is that he won't make adjustments and forces players to fit within his own scheme. It's not the case. He's always been willing to accommodate the personnel as long as it made sense within the offense and made his name for running "hybrid" offenses. For instance, his base blocking scheme, traditionally, is the outside zone. It's what he ran with Knowshon Moreno, Jay Ajayi, and Kenyan Drake. The zone scheme is usually best utilized for teams with offensive line and/or RB deficiencies as the scheme predetermines the OL zones and exactly which lane the RB is supposed to take, aka "one-cut" running. However, when Frank Gore came into the fold in 2018, Gase switched to a hybrid man-zone scheme because Gore was much more comfortable as an instinctual runner; it allowed him to exude patience to see where where the whole opened up, then make his move. Le'Veon Bell is the same way - he thrives in man-power schemes because it fits his patient style. The problem this year? We by no means had the personnel to run any form of a man-power scheme. Beachum is purely a zone blocker, Kalil/Harrison have no power in their game/purely finesse players, Winters was dealing with a bum shoulder and Compton too is purely a zone blocker. The only players who could somewhat hold their own as power-man blockers were Lewis and Shell (and to say Lewis would is pushing it), and if I know that then the rest of the NFL knows it, including Le'Veon. People want to blame Gase for not adjusting, but what about Le'Veon? I'm sure part of Gase's displeasure with Bell was the fact that he wouldn't just accept that the only scheme we could run with our personnel was the outside zone, but Bell still wouldn't just hit the hole that was already called out for him. It's the exact reason why Powell looked better when he would come in this year, and if I were a coach I'd be extremely frustrated with the player as well. It's a team game, and Gase's offense can only work if players sacrifice their own self-interests and do what is asked of them. It's not because he "doesn't like people who challenge" him, it's because he knows the capabilities of his personnel and seeks to put the best unit on the field. For example (if you can follow): if the backup LT is better than the backup LG, and the starting LT is better at LG than the backup LG, he'll put the backup LT in and shift the starting LT to LG. That's how Gase operates. Yes, communication is something he's not good at and in my opinion is a real concern, but if you pay attention to what's really going on from an X's and O's, it's hard for me to say he's wrong because he's not.

18 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Route technicians. Guys who can make plays after the catch and find the holes in defenses to get open. Q would be a prime example of what he likes. I think Smith can continue to develop into a solid addition as well. His offense is timing based, every route works in sync with one another and while you can say well doesn’t every team do that? No. For some it’s go get open. He wants to put option routes on the field for guys to react post snap as well. That takes both the receiver and Sam seeing the same thing. It’s a beautiful offense when it works but it’s complicated and can get messy when things aren’t going well(this is why pass protection is so important)

Versatility in backs is important as well simply because it allows you check in and out of plays. Bell is a perfect fit skill set wise despite his struggles this season.

This. The popular theme was "well Gase didn't want him", but that's not true. He didn't believe in spending so much money in a RB- felt addressing the OL should've been a higher priority. Again, I think Adam's frustrations with Bell are far less about his fit in the offense, it was his unwillingness to adapt to the only blocking scheme we were capable of running.

As for what Gase looks for: footwork. Loves guys who are smooth and nuanced in their movements, regardless of position. 

Edited by jetskid007

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On 12/30/2019 at 5:35 PM, Dr.O said:

I expect us to move Bell for what we can get and Jordan Howard seems like the obvious replacement

Ive seen this a few places but why, he played hard and had a sucky o-line.  If the line gets better so will he.  I think we keep him, draft a replacement in the later rounds.

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On 12/31/2019 at 9:13 PM, Bobby816 said:

We don’t resign Jenkins and this franchise has issues deeper than I even think. Guy is a leader and does a job. Put a pure pass rusher with legit skill opposite him and his numbers will be even better. He’s our Calvin Pace but homegrown.

agree

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32 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Whatcha guys think of a Bell for Watkins swap?

Personally I’d do it, especially with Robby all but gone. Yes, Sammy has a tendency to get hurt/disappear, but I’d rather get out of the Bell contract one year early and shift the focus of the offense to the passing game with complementary RBs. That said, I’m not sure KC would do it without us taking on more of Bell’s contract, and Sammy is due a $14m salary this year. Chances are we’d be paying $25 million (Lev’s dead money + Sammy’s salary) for Watkins on a 1 year deal. 
 

When it’s all said and done I do foresee Sammy getting cut or traded, and I’d expect we would have interest. Just depends on what he’ll ask for salary-wise

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1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Whatcha guys think of a Bell for Watkins swap?

I'd do it because I don't expect Gase to adjust his offense to favor Bell in slightest and thus we're better off going in a different direction. 

Watkins was probably my favorite WR prospect ever so maybe I'm a little bias. Still can't believe he didn't turn into a star. 

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Why would Bell change his style which has led to some of the most productive seasons in the history of the NFL to a coach who is a terrible people person and has accomplished nothing? On a human level it doesn't make sense.

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