LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: 21 is a gift for a LB. Much like RB. Sure, techniques and intelligence will improve but it is an instinctive position and he is probably at his physical peak. He can be useful he just isn't ever going to be an average run defender imo. He is good in coverage and can be a good pass rusher probably but his best fit would likely be in a 3-4. 21 is young. Men peak physically in their late 20’s. I’m not saying you’re wrong about the rest of it, but he’s got time to improve. He’s never gonna be Levon Kirkland between the tackles, but he can be completely adequate if he develops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: 21 is young. Men peak physically in their late 20’s. I’m not saying you’re wrong about the rest of it, but he’s got time to improve. He’s never gonna be Levon Kirkland between the tackles, but he can be completely adequate if he develops. LBers and RBs don't. Too much gets worn down on average players. Sure there are anomalies but in general a LB and RB peak early. We've probably seen the best of Barkley and Chubb isn't going to be better than he has already shown. LBers are also only going to slow down and while they can strength train the added bulk isn't going to help that unless they were severely weak which isn't usually the case with athletes who get drafted. LBers can excel better than RBs over time just from knowing where to be and what to read but physically if you can't turn and accelerate at 21 you won't be able to at 27. Edited December 31, 2019 by Thomas5737 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: LBers and RBs don't. Too much gets worn down on average players. Sure there are anomalies but in general a LB and RB peak early. We've probably seen the best of Barkley and Chubb isn't going to be better than he has already shown. LBers are also only going to slow down and while they can strength train the added bulk isn't going to help that unless they were severely weak which isn't usually the case with athletes who get drafted. LBers can excel better than RBs over time just from knowing where to be and what to read but physically if you can't turn and accelerate at 21 you won't be able to at 27. LB is the 2nd most cerebral position in football. That's what Mack struggles with right now. He's going to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Defense was always soft and built to run by guys upfront rather than physically impose. That said, I'm surprised Ogunjobi wasn't more of a force and that Devoroa Lawrence didn't stick. Seemed like Richardson was the only DT out there sometimes. Kirksey is not a good LB. He's not good vs the run or the pass. Great locker guy but limited player. Vernon is a solid player....you guys are crazy. Biggest issue is the lack of physicality upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Defense was always soft and built to run by guys upfront rather than physically impose. That said, I'm surprised Ogunjobi wasn't more of a force and that Devoroa Lawrence didn't stick. Seemed like Richardson was the only DT out there sometimes. Kirksey is not a good LB. He's not good vs the run or the pass. Great locker guy but limited player. Vernon is a solid player....you guys are crazy. Biggest issue is the lack of physicality upfront. Kirko i thought would do well on the 4-3 hos best years were in the 3-4 shooting gaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Kirko i thought would do well on the 4-3 hos best years were in the 3-4 shooting gaps Kirko is a slightly better D’Quell Jackson. Better in coverage but doesn’t stop people in their tracks. People he tackles always get a couple yards after contact. We have never really had a good thumper at LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, hornbybrown said: Kirko is a slightly better D’Quell Jackson. Better in coverage but doesn’t stop people in their tracks. People he tackles always get a couple yards after contact. We have never really had a good thumper at LB We did for 1 year, demario davis, he is on fire for the saints Edited December 31, 2019 by Kiwibrown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: We sid for 1 year, demario davis, he is on fire for the saints It’s part of the reason our run D has always sucked. We have never had good LB’s vs the run Edit to say IMO the biggest reason Edited December 31, 2019 by hornbybrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 44 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: LB is the 2nd most cerebral position in football. That's what Mack struggles with right now. He's going to be fine. I don't think that is accurate at all. Certainly not at the LB position Mack will play. Everything is in front of you so it will be mostly seeing and reacting. If he was in the Schobert role (he shouldn't ever be because of physical limitations) then I would get your point. Still, I put it behind center, safety and probably WR. OLB is mostly about ability. He already does well in coverage and that is where you could see progression in the future, not in the ability to be able to stop/start and be fluid which is where he will always struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I don't think that is accurate at all. Certainly not at the LB position Mack will play. Everything is in front of you so it will be mostly seeing and reacting. If he was in the Schobert role (he shouldn't ever be because of physical limitations) then I would get your point. Still, I put it behind center, safety and probably WR. OLB is mostly about ability. He already does well in coverage and that is where you could see progression in the future, not in the ability to be able to stop/start and be fluid which is where he will always struggle. I’m with you on this. The three positions dummies can play are RB, OLB and DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Everything is in front of you so it will be mostly seeing and reacting. You can say the same for every position, including QB. Not sure what that means. I coach linebackers and I can tell you that it's easily the hardest position to play on defense mentally. Any time someone pulls, it drastically changes your fit within your gap. What do you think is the hardest position to play mentally outside of QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, hornbybrown said: I’m with you on this. The three positions dummies can play are RB, OLB and DT Remember Jamie Collins being a dumb OLB and causing big run after big run because he couldn't figure out how to fit his gap properly? You guys realize we constantly get gashed on the perimeter of our defense when it comes to run plays because our linebackers get caught with their eyes inside and/or are getting pinned by a blocker they should have "scraped" over the top of? Our OLB play has been atrocious the last few years and it's a HUGE reason our run defense has been putrid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just now, BleedTheClock said: Remember Jamie Collins being a dumb OLB and causing big run after big run because he couldn't figure out how to fit his gap properly? You guys realize we constantly get gashed on the perimeter of our defense when it comes to run plays because our linebackers get caught with their eyes inside and/or are getting pinned by a blocker they should have "scraped" over the top of? Our OLB play has been atrocious the last few years and it's a HUGE reason our run defense has been putrid. Jamie Collins is doing fine now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, hornbybrown said: Jamie Collins is doing fine now.... He was here for 50 million reasons 1 of them wasn't defending the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: You can say the same for every position, including QB. Not sure what that means. I coach linebackers and I can tell you that it's easily the hardest position to play on defense mentally. Any time someone pulls, it drastically changes your fit within your gap. What do you think is the hardest position to play mentally outside of QB? I'd think center, WR, S for sure because you can't make up for any mistakes usually. You can hide a bit at LB and it isn't always obvious that you screwed up mentally, more of a noticeable thing if you screw up physically (which is my concern with Mack). Lots of players don't have the playing field visually in front of them like a LB. Doesn't matter with O Line but receivers don't have that. Neither does the secondary on a lot of plays. Much harder to play the run on a delay when you are covering a WR than a LB unless he is manned up on a stud TE running a route on a run play. Tough part at LB is biting on something but that isn't really an intelligence thing. To be fair, you don't have to be smart to play football at any position. I played QB and I can barely count to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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