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On 2/7/2020 at 10:59 AM, scar988 said:

You can get better compensation than a comp pick through a tag and trade.

It’s on the team to pony up the cash to keep them and make it a desirable place to play...with a good staff, a good roster, an owner that isn’t cheap, whatever.

tag & trade is dumb, they should abolish it and just overhaul the comp pick system. That and testing for weed being off the punishable offenses list is probably what the players should trade for 17 games. The current system screws over players and vets too much.

I get part of the impetus for it was to boost up smaller markets from players just flocking to big cities (like we see nowadays in the NBA). But the money and marketing is there for almost all the cities at this point. Yeah there is a noticeable drop from the NFC East to a team like the Jags. But the league has gotten parody to a near perfect level. Only the most dysfunctional franchises stay down, and that’s on them.

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Fun with Cowboys Salary Cap:  Est 77 million in space with 7 of that for rookies  (of course these are estimates)

Dallas has 8 free agent starters

  • Prescott  - 34 million estimate (27ish if tagged)
  • Cooper - 16 million estimate (14 to 18)
  • Jones - 13 million estimate (11 to 15)
  • Quinn -  7 million  (wild variance depending on market  6 to 12?)
    • 80 sacks in 125 games
  • Witten - 2 million (retire or leaving?) draft a replacement?
    • Is Jarwin a starter?
  • Heath -  3.5 million  (decent starter, could get as much as 5 depending on needs)
  • Lee  - 5 million (leaving?)
  • M  Collins  - 8 million?  (He will get paid, just like Reader in Houston)

That's above their cap room before getting to the high volume rotational players

  • Bennett - 5 million (5 to 8) (me-first player who left 2 far better situations over greed or role - discount very unlikely)
  • Cobb - 7 million (6 to 10) (no more prove it after injury year)
  • Brown - 4 million (mediocre CB but the league needs those guys)
  • Covington - 1 million (replacement level?)
  • Su'a-Filo - 1 million  (he's not great but he's the #3 guard) - Draft a replacement and hope

That's somewhere in the 105 million range (100 with a tag on Dak) just to keep the same team together.

 

About the only cut that would generate real cap savings would be Tyrone Crawford (8 million) who only played 4 games last year, but he's been a good player before that.

In theory they could cut Fleming for 4.5 million savings, but he's the only depth OT that does not suck behind a fragile line.

  • He has a couple rings and played in a 3rd SB in NE in the same role.
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2 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Fun with Cowboys Salary Cap:  Est 77 million in space with 7 of that for rookies  (of course these are estimates)

Dallas has 8 free agent starters

  • Prescott  - 34 million estimate (27ish if tagged)
  • Cooper - 16 million estimate (14 to 18)
  • Jones - 13 million estimate (11 to 15)
  • Quinn -  7 million  (wild variance depending on market  6 to 12?)
    • 80 sacks in 125 games
  • Witten - 2 million (retire or leaving?) draft a replacement?
    • Is Jarwin a starter?
  • Heath -  3.5 million  (decent starter, could get as much as 5 depending on needs)
  • Lee  - 5 million (leaving?)
  • M  Collins  - 8 million?  (He will get paid, just like Reader in Houston)

That's above their cap room before getting to the high volume rotational players

  • Bennett - 5 million (5 to 8) (me-first player who left 2 far better situations over greed or role - discount very unlikely)
  • Cobb - 7 million (6 to 10) (no more prove it after injury year)
  • Brown - 4 million (mediocre CB but the league needs those guys)
  • Covington - 1 million (replacement level?)
  • Su'a-Filo - 1 million  (he's not great but he's the #3 guard) - Draft a replacement and hope

That's somewhere in the 105 million range (100 with a tag on Dak) just to keep the same team together.

 

About the only cut that would generate real cap savings would be Tyrone Crawford (8 million) who only played 4 games last year, but he's been a good player before that.

In theory they could cut Fleming for 4.5 million savings, but he's the only depth OT that does not suck behind a fragile line.

  • He has a couple rings and played in a 3rd SB in NE in the same role.

Why do you repeatedly post about the Cowboys and come to these questionable conclusions? Such as that we would want to keep the same team that went 8-8 together? Many/most of these players wont be back because they were under performers.

I mean, I get that you dont understand our roster construction. But even your cap projections are way off. Would you like me to correct it?

Edited by Matts4313
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24 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Why do you repeatedly post about the Cowboys and come to these questionable conclusions? Such as that we would want to keep the same team that went 8-8 together? Many/most of these players wont be back because they were under performers.

I mean, I get that you dont understand our roster construction. But even your cap projections are way off. Would you like me to correct it?

Its a discussion point. I made no conclusions. I even listed the word ESTIMATES at the start.

They are a popular team with a lot of cap space and a lot of big name free agents. We are allowed to talk about them.

I always welcome your opinion.

 

Obviously Dak did not under-perform at 2.1 million

Did Heath under-perform at 2.7 million? I'd love to hear this.

Did Cobb at 4.9 million?

  • Do you disagree that he signed a cheaper 1 year deal coming off an injury season?

Was Witten overpaid at 4.25?

  • If so, do you mean by 200k because he's getting old? (4 million is nothing for a mediocre starting TE)
  • He was paid less than Ed Dickson and Rhett Ellison

Was Byron Jones under-performing his 6.2 million salary?

  • He was 31st in cap hit

How about Quinn's 7.9 for 11 1/2 sacks?

  • If so then Lawrence was stealing money by comparison.

Collins at 2.25 million?

Anthony Brown at 2 million before he got hurt?

  • Do you think I went wild high with his projection as a CB who started 34 games the last 4 years?

Maybe you mean Cooper's stat padding in games against bad teams is a crime but its heroic when Dak does it? Is that where you were headed?

  • Dak's rating in the week 3 Championship Run was 128.0 and 94.4 the rest of the season.
  • Would you count Cooper's 248 yards and 4 TDs in the same 3 weeks against him? It would be a very odd position to take.

 

I await your detailed analysis and projections.

 

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16 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Ok, Ill work on it tonight. But you are moving goalpost a little from your projection next year to what they were paid last year.

I am using your words about them (you called them under-performers)

How can you under-perform what you will get paid in 2020 when its 2019?

 

You pretend to have some superior knowledge of Free Agency.

Good thing is that all these players will be signed so we can check our work.

No lame lower or higher guesses. I want hard numbers in average salary.

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6 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I am using your words about them (you called them under-performers)

How can you under-perform what you will get paid in 2020 when its 2019?

 

You pretend to have some superior knowledge of Free Agency.

Good thing is that all these players will be signed so we can check our work.

No lame lower or higher guesses. I want hard numbers in average salary.

1. I have superior *Cowboys* knowledge. Theres a difference.

2. What they sign for in the open market and what they are worth to the Cowboys. There is a difference. 

 

Just making something up to relate. You could say "Agohlor isnt worth more than $3m to the Eagles" - - that doesnt change he might sign for $5m to a different team. 

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Doubtful Chris Jones gets a big deal with Chiefs with the Mahomes contract looming.
 

Unless Veach gets creative, maybe front load all of Jones’ money and back pay Mahomes another year(still try to give him a raise though obviously) Steinberg would have to okay that.

Watkins is for sure getting the axe. That cap figure is huge at 21 million, and the chiefs gain 14 mill in cap space with a cut.

Hands are kinda tied. They’ll be looking at vet min guys or guys who are willing to take a pay cut to win Ships. Reid is likable so that could work.

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3 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Unless Veach gets creative, maybe front load all of Jones’ money and back pay Mahomes another year(still try to give him a raise though obviously) Steinberg would have to okay that.

Watkins is for sure getting the axe. That cap figure is huge at 21 million, and the chiefs gain 14 mill in cap space with a cut.

The Watkins cut will be directed towards Jones's contract IMO. Only question is,  How much more will his APY be?

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2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Dallas has 8 free agent starters

  • Prescott  - 34 million estimate (27ish if tagged)
  • Cooper - 16 million estimate (14 to 18)

The cap hit for Dak I expect to be at or under $30m. This is obviously wild speculation, but even if he gets around the Wilson deal @5 years instead of the 4 year extension, It should still be right around $30m.

Cooper looks right.

Quote

Jones - 13 million estimate (11 to 15)

  • Quinn -  7 million  (wild variance depending on market  6 to 12?)
    • 80 sacks in 125 games
  • Witten - 2 million (retire or leaving?) draft a replacement?
    • Is Jarwin a starter?
  • Heath -  3.5 million  (decent starter, could get as much as 5 depending on needs)
  • Lee  - 5 million (leaving?)
  • M  Collins  - 8 million?  (He will get paid, just like Reader in Houston)

All of these players will probably be gone. Heath sucks, first of all. Collins is extremely mediocre. 

Jones and Quinn are both good, but I have a feeling they will price themselves out of Dallas. Though Quinn at $7m I would do in a heartbeat. 

Quote

That's above their cap room before getting to the high volume rotational players

  • Bennett - 5 million (5 to 8) (me-first player who left 2 far better situations over greed or role - discount very unlikely)
  • Cobb - 7 million (6 to 10) (no more prove it after injury year)
  • Brown - 4 million (mediocre CB but the league needs those guys)
  • Covington - 1 million (replacement level?)
  • Su'a-Filo - 1 million  (he's not great but he's the #3 guard) - Draft a replacement and hope

That's somewhere in the 105 million range (100 with a tag on Dak) just to keep the same team together.

Out of all of these, Cobb and maybe Brown stick around. Those numbers are an okay guess for them. We have already drafted guard depth last year, btw.

So that is ~$57m in cap hit - $77m in cap = $20m left over. We will 95% be getting rid of Crawford (as you correctly pointed out), bringing us closer to $25m-30m.

 

@SkippyX => Some reason I quoted the post with my name, so it didnt tag you.

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My predictions for the Saints upcoming free agents

Eli Apple- Allowed to test the market, could come back if he realizes he's not gonna get big money

Ted Ginn- He'll be a FA for a while. Doubt the Saints bring him back. Maybe at the end of the preseason if someone gets hurt.

Andrus Peat- Landfill.

P.J. Williams- He'll go be a decent reserve somewhere else.

Vonn Bell- Saints will re-sign him

D.J. Swearinger- He'll be allowed to test the market. I could see him re-signing for cheap. Saints are suckers for this type of doofus. 

Manti Te'o- Same as Ginn

David Onyemata- Saints need to bring him back. He's really solid and shouldn't be too expensive.

Zach Wood- Re-signed.

Cameron Tom- Re-signed

Justin Hardee- Re-signed

J.T. Gray- Re-signed

Taysom Hill- 2nd round tender.

Keith Kirkwood- Re-signed

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1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Its a discussion point. I made no conclusions. I even listed the word ESTIMATES at the start.

They are a popular team with a lot of cap space and a lot of big name free agents. We are allowed to talk about them.

I always welcome your opinion.

 

Obviously Dak did not under-perform at 2.1 million

Did Heath under-perform at 2.7 million? I'd love to hear this.

Yes, Heath sucks. He should be paid vet min and just play special teams. 

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Did Cobb at 4.9 million?

  • Do you disagree that he signed a cheaper 1 year deal coming off an injury season?

Cobb was paid appropriately when you factor in the positives and negatives. He is likely to be overpaid next year. 

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Was Witten overpaid at 4.25?

  • If so, do you mean by 200k because he's getting old? (4 million is nothing for a mediocre starting TE)
  • He was paid less than Ed Dickson and Rhett Ellison

Witten should have stayed retired. 

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Was Byron Jones under-performing his 6.2 million salary?

  • He was 31st in cap hit

He was underpaid last year. He is going to be overpaid next year. I think he is going to push $15m... He should be paid <$10m.

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

How about Quinn's 7.9 for 11 1/2 sacks?

  • If so then Lawrence was stealing money by comparison.

Quinn is awesome. 

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Collins at 2.25 million?

You said $8m. Collins absolutely in no possible world deserves more than ~$3-4m/yr based on what he has shown so far. 

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Anthony Brown at 2 million before he got hurt?

  • Do you think I went wild high with his projection as a CB who started 34 games the last 4 years?

You said $4m. That seems about right value wise. But I bet he gets closer to $6m. He is going to be overpaid as well, imo.

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Maybe you mean Cooper's stat padding in games against bad teams is a crime but its heroic when Dak does it? Is that where you were headed?

  • Dak's rating in the week 3 Championship Run was 128.0 and 94.4 the rest of the season.
  • Would you count Cooper's 248 yards and 4 TDs in the same 3 weeks against him? It would be a very odd position to take.

 

I await your detailed analysis and projections.

"week 3 champ run" is such a cute term. 

 

Have you seen episode 4 of the All or Nothing? :D:D

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5 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Doubtful Chris Jones gets a big deal with Chiefs with the Mahomes contract looming.
 

Unless Veach gets creative, maybe front load all of Jones’ money and back pay Mahomes another year(still try to give him a raise though obviously) Steinberg would have to okay that.

Watkins is for sure getting the axe. That cap figure is huge at 21 million, and the chiefs gain 14 mill in cap space with a cut.

Hands are kinda tied. They’ll be looking at vet min guys or guys who are willing to take a pay cut to win Ships. Reid is likable so that could work.

Would be a helluva get for any team...those guys don't get to the market very often at his age.

 

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