Ryan Pace Presser

[Heinz D.]

22 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

How would you like Pace to get from 43 to 3? He did what big boy GM's do with Trubisky and failed. He's not doing it again, especially that kind of leap.

Not sure I was advocating a similar move?

Also, not sure why you're defending Pace when you're chomping at the bit for him to be fired? 

[beardown3231]

37 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Not sure I was advocating a similar move?

Also, not sure why you're defending Pace when you're chomping at the bit for him to be fired? 

Pace is an idiot. I find fault in a lot of the things he says and does. In what way am I "defending" him in what I said? He made a trade like that already- fact. He's not going to go from 43 to 3- fact.

Even though I think he should be fired, it doesn't mean what you said is a little confusing and puzzling & now you seem to be denying it. You clearly said Ballard's trading up with the Lions and snagging Herbert (most likely). I said it in the Mitch failure thread, and ain't backin' down. Sort of thing big boy GMs do. Looking like we don't have one those, unfortunately. 

"Sort of thing big boy GMs do" implies you believe he's a big boy GM and Pace isn't, not because of their abilities (or lack thereof), but because one has the guts to make that kind of move, and then you added "looking like we don't have one of those" which seems like a double down on one being gutless and one not. 

If you aren't implying that and are simply saying Ballard's a better GM, he probably is but I'm not sure he's done a better job than Pace... to this point anyway

Edited January 4, 2020 by beardown3231

[dll2000]

Huge fan concerns re recent Pace comments.  Many are focusing on idea of keeping MT as #1 QB, but that is debatable.   Concerning comments are:

1) Seems they are keeping Burton who is worthless.  

2) Not worried about Miller injury which is becoming a recurring theme.

 

[abstract_thought]

23 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Huge fan concerns re recent Pace comments.  Many are focusing on idea of keeping MT as #1 QB, but that is debatable.   Concerning comments are:

1) Seems they are keeping Burton who is worthless.  

2) Not worried about Miller injury which is becoming a recurring theme.

I think you have to either take him at his word or not. If you do then you can list plenty of comments that are more "borderline insane" than "concerning".

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Huge fan concerns re recent Pace comments.  Many are focusing on idea of keeping MT as #1 QB, but that is debatable.   Concerning comments are:

1) Seems they are keeping Burton who is worthless.  

2) Not worried about Miller injury which is becoming a recurring theme.

 

Why would they cut Burton? IIRC it'd cost them $7 million. It would cancel out and then some the Fuller savings from his restructure. That would be pointless.

[JAF-N72EX]

13 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Why would they cut Burton? IIRC it'd cost them $7 million. It would cancel out and then some the Fuller savings from his restructure. That would be pointless.

It would add an additional 1.05M in cap space which is much better than paying him 8.5M (6.4M base + 1.95M in bonuses).

[beardown3231]

20 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It would add an additional 1.05M in cap space which is much better than paying him 8.5M (6.4M base + 1.95M in bonuses).

I thought there was $7M or so in dead money. I didn't think there was cap savings involved.

[JAF-N72EX]

17 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I thought there was $7M or so in dead money. I didn't think there was cap savings involved.

Yeah, there would still be 7.5M in dead money but it's lower than what his actual cap hit would be if he were stay on the team (8.55M). 

Dead money is money that is owed to the player regardless of what happens.

If they keep him it would cost the team his base salary of 6.7M plus an additional 1.95M in bonuses, which equals 8.55M. 

If they release him then they still have to pay him 7.5M but they get to keep the rest. 

8.55M minus 7.5M equals 1.05M in savings

hope this clears it up.

[beardown3231]

27 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Yeah, there would still be 7.5M in dead money but it's lower than what his actual cap hit would be if he were stay on the team (8.55M). 

Dead money is money that is owed to the player regardless of what happens.

If they keep him it would cost the team his base salary of 6.7M plus an additional 1.95M in bonuses, which equals 8.55M. 

If they release him then they still have to pay him 7.5M but they get to keep the rest. 

8.55M minus 7.5M equals 1.05M in savings

hope this clears it up.

Well yeah I know how it works. I just saw the dead money and didn't bother looking further. My bad.

Good to have you back, btw. Where were you all year?

Edited January 4, 2020 by beardown3231

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

If cutting Burton only saves ~1m cap space, wouldn't it be better to keep him around and see if he can get back to 2018 levels of production? I think the severity of his absence has made us forget that he was a pretty helpful option for Mitch last year until he groined out. 

[beardown3231]

16 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

If cutting Burton only saves ~1m cap space, wouldn't it be better to keep him around and see if he can get back to 2018 levels of production? I think the severity of his absence has made us forget that he was a pretty helpful option for Mitch last year until he groined out. 

I think so. The guy is super aggravating and probably falls under the "p****" category but if healthy he's a decent option. He led them in TD's in 2018. With a team so lack at TE, I wouldn't cut him just yet. If they sign Henry or Hooper and a good TE falls to them at 43 or 50, then yeah I'd probably launch him.

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Good to have you back, btw. Where were you all year?

Thx. Just busy is all. Besides I've been a Bear fan long enough to know that this place would be unbearable during a disappointing season. 

2 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

If cutting Burton only saves ~1m cap space, wouldn't it be better to keep him around and see if he can get back to 2018 levels of production? I think the severity of his absence has made us forget that he was a pretty helpful option for Mitch last year until he groined out. 

Honestly, I can see a legit argument for both sides.

Has he been bad enough to cut him just to save 1M, probably not. But has he been good enough to pay 8.5M, probably not.

Restructuring his contract is probably the most ideal way to go about it right now given the circumstances.

Three reasons to keep him.
1) Yes, he's been pretty disappointing, but has he been THAT bad to the point where you cut him just to save 1M? I would say no. Now, if we were talking about saving 5M or something along those lines, then yes, that's a no-brainer.

2)  If he has another disappointing year in 2020, then we can release him and clear 7.1M in cap space while only taking a 1.75M hit in dead cap. This could be important because if the team misses the playoffs again next year then the offense is getting an entirely new makeover, and we're going to need all the money we can muster.

3) Playing the U position still has value in Nagy's offense. Pace/Nagy are no doubt getting a TE in the draft and having a TE threat in the seam can open things up more for the slot guys like Burton, Cohen, and Miller in the short/mid routes.

Three reasons to release him
1) Yes, it only saves 1M in cap space, but right now the Bears need all of the space that they can get.

2) Burton is going to make 8.55M this year, so you have to be honest with yourself and ask the question, do you think he can produce the kind of numbers that justify the price? Personally, I would say no. For one, there is only so many targets to go around. 2) He hasn't been healthy since missing the playoff game last off-season, and quite frankly I'm not sure he can stay healthy again for a full season. But if they keep him (which I think they will) then I hope that I'm wrong.

3) Burton is nothing special. Releasing him opens up a chance to add another deep threat in the slot (preferably one who can take the top off of defenses), which is badly needed.