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Jack Del Rio hired as Defensive Coordinator


Vladimir L

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Someone is going to have to help me understand something here.  If Del Rio runs the system that he has run in the past, it's a two-gap 4-3 defense, instead of the two-gap 3-4 defense we ran under Manusky- Barry ran a one gap system.  

Only one team runs a two-gap 4-3 defense, and that's Jacksonville.  

Is it really an improvement over what we are running right now?  Especially in this day and age of covering RBs out of the backfield and TE's in the seam?  

From my football knowledge, not really, but I'm open to being wrong.  

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I just discovered the craziest coincidence: 😃

In 2002, the Panthers draft Julius Peppers #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2012, the Broncos draft Von Miller #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2020, the Redskins draft Chase Young (?) #2 overall and hire Del Rio. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1212038373625548803 

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9 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

 

I just discovered the craziest coincidence: 😃

In 2002, the Panthers draft Julius Peppers #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2012, the Broncos draft Von Miller #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2020, the Redskins draft Chase Young (?) #2 overall and hire Del Rio. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1212038373625548803 

Also Khalil Mack you guessed it #2 overall 😂😂

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38 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

 

I just discovered the craziest coincidence: 😃

In 2002, the Panthers draft Julius Peppers #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2012, the Broncos draft Von Miller #2 overall and hire Del Rio.

In 2020, the Redskins draft Chase Young (?) #2 overall and hire Del Rio. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1212038373625548803 

Von Miller was drafted in 2011...

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20 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Someone is going to have to help me understand something here.  If Del Rio runs the system that he has run in the past, it's a two-gap 4-3 defense, instead of the two-gap 3-4 defense we ran under Manusky- Barry ran a one gap system.  

Only one team runs a two-gap 4-3 defense, and that's Jacksonville.  

Is it really an improvement over what we are running right now?  Especially in this day and age of covering RBs out of the backfield and TE's in the seam?  

From my football knowledge, not really, but I'm open to being wrong.  

Go read Mark Bullock’s article regarding Del Rio’s former defenses. The gist is, he runs a 4-3 under, mostly 1-gap system. The 4-3 under resembles the 3-4 because the SAM is on the LOS, but the DE on the other side always has his hand in the dirt. 

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5 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Go read Mark Bullock’s article regarding Del Rio’s former defenses. The gist is, he runs a 4-3 under, mostly 1-gap system. The 4-3 under resembles the 3-4 because the SAM is on the LOS, but the DE on the other side always has his hand in the dirt. 

Hmm, what I saw is that he's a two gap guy.  I will need to go and look further, because running a 4-3 two gap system versus a 3-4 two gap system is really not worth making the change to the base system from my knowledge.  

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Just now, naptownskinsfan said:

Hmm, what I saw is that he's a two gap guy.  I will need to go and look further, because running a 4-3 two gap system versus a 3-4 two gap system is really not worth making the change to the base system from my knowledge.  

I trust Bullock. 

“Like Rivera, Del Rio has used both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes but mostly sticks to a one-gap system even in the 3-4. Del Rio showed more variations in his fronts too. Rivera mostly stuck to an over front when he used a 4-3 scheme, but Del Rio often went the other way, using an under front that resembles a 3-4 look.

In an over front, the defensive line shifts toward the strength of the offensive formation, which is the side of the tight end. Logically, an under front shifts the other way. The nose tackle shifts to the A gap to the strong side of the formation while the three-technique defensive tackle slides to the weak side of the formation, on the outside shoulder of the left guard here. To account for this shift, the linebackers then rotate over, with the Sam (strong side linebacker) aligning on the edge outside of the tight end. This is essentially a 3-4 front, but with one of the edge ends playing with his hand in the dirt instead of standing up.

This front is why a 4-3 and 3-4 system is largely irrelevant, as both can shift to look like the other. If Rivera and Del Rio do want to change the Redskins to a 4-3, then using an under front could allow them to be a 4-3 in name, with 3-4 personnel the Redskins currently possess.”

https://theathletic.com/1501298/2020/01/01/what-influence-jack-del-rio-could-have-on-ron-riveras-redskins-defense/?source=dailyemail

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3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I trust Bullock. 

“Like Rivera, Del Rio has used both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes but mostly sticks to a one-gap system even in the 3-4. Del Rio showed more variations in his fronts too. Rivera mostly stuck to an over front when he used a 4-3 scheme, but Del Rio often went the other way, using an under front that resembles a 3-4 look.

In an over front, the defensive line shifts toward the strength of the offensive formation, which is the side of the tight end. Logically, an under front shifts the other way. The nose tackle shifts to the A gap to the strong side of the formation while the three-technique defensive tackle slides to the weak side of the formation, on the outside shoulder of the left guard here. To account for this shift, the linebackers then rotate over, with the Sam (strong side linebacker) aligning on the edge outside of the tight end. This is essentially a 3-4 front, but with one of the edge ends playing with his hand in the dirt instead of standing up.

This front is why a 4-3 and 3-4 system is largely irrelevant, as both can shift to look like the other. If Rivera and Del Rio do want to change the Redskins to a 4-3, then using an under front could allow them to be a 4-3 in name, with 3-4 personnel the Redskins currently possess.”

https://theathletic.com/1501298/2020/01/01/what-influence-jack-del-rio-could-have-on-ron-riveras-redskins-defense/?source=dailyemail

Thanks for sharing.  

I had almost forgotten about some of Rivera's earlier career and him being a 3-4 coordinator as well.  So in theory, they could keep the same base system?  And while you can shift people around to disguise formations and such, the base responsibilities and player archetypes change, and there is an adjustment period for everyone involved.  I guess we will find out more about a switch like that at the press conference tomorrow.  

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6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

So in theory, they could keep the same base system?  

I believe so. There will definitely be an adjustment period, and we badly need to find an impact LB, but I’m excited we’re making the change, even if we don’t see immeadiate results.

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On 12/31/2019 at 6:12 PM, naptownskinsfan said:

Someone is going to have to help me understand something here.  If Del Rio runs the system that he has run in the past, it's a two-gap 4-3 defense, instead of the two-gap 3-4 defense we ran under Manusky- Barry ran a one gap system.  

Only one team runs a two-gap 4-3 defense, and that's Jacksonville.  

Is it really an improvement over what we are running right now?  Especially in this day and age of covering RBs out of the backfield and TE's in the seam?  

From my football knowledge, not really, but I'm open to being wrong.  

We didn’t run two-gap under Manusky. We ran a one-gap 3-4/under 3-4, not the two-gap okie if I remember the names correctly. Our DL didn’t two gap. We ran a two gap under Haslett, and then Barry changed it to a one gap and Manusky ran that scheme too. And even if we did two-gap some, it wasn’t the majority of the time, the majority of the time our defense was in nickel in a 4-2-5 from 2010-2019 which, I don’t see changing much even since we are switching back to the 4-3.

As for if it will be an improvement, everyone seems to think so just based off that we’ll have 4 down linemen (which we had 70% of the time from 2010-2019 anyways when in the nickel) and when we had 4 down linemen and ran a 4-3 last decade and the decades before our defense was better. 
 

What those people are forgetting is that it’s not the scheme that made those defenses better last decade and in the 70s, 80s and early & late 90s, it was the players who made the plays on the field that made our defense good to great.

I think our defense will improve going back to the 4-3 just bc Sweat, Kerrigan and hopefully Chase Young won’t have coverage responsibilities at all. Plus, we will have 3 linebackers who can cover on the field about half of the plays in the game and the other half of the game we’ll be in nickel 4-2-5.

That should be an improvement for our defense, but the players still have to make the plays on the field.

Again, we have talent in our front 7, we need upgrades in our linebacking corps - or the young guys have to improve — we need upgrades in our secondary at corner and FS. 
 

People thinking that just bc we move back to the 4-3 that we’ll be a top 10 defense again like we were from 2004-2008 have a misplaced thoughts IMO.

I think the move to a 4-3 gets our defense to be a top half of the league defense, but if we want to be a top 10 defense we need Young to come in and be special, we need Sweat - and Kerrigan if he’s kept - to be better and more consistent, we need upgrades to our LB corps or our young LBs to make significant strides, to play better and more consistent, we need an upgrade at #2 corner and slot corner and/or Norman to be better and more consistent - bc Ron Rivera demands it of him and he doesn’t want to disappoint Ron - and we need an upgrade at FS.

That’s a hell of a lot on defense we need to improve upon other than just switching to the 4-3 and thinking everything is just going to be fixed now and we’ll have a top 10 defense again!

Edited by turtle28
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On 1/1/2020 at 2:30 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

Go read Mark Bullock’s article regarding Del Rio’s former defenses. The gist is, he runs a 4-3 under, mostly 1-gap system. The 4-3 under resembles the 3-4 because the SAM is on the LOS, but the DE on the other side always has his hand in the dirt. 

Yes, this is the Seattle Seahawks defense and I’ve wanted the Redskins to run this for years!

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I expect them to be more multiple than to stick to one scheme. The talent up front is (and definately will be with Young) there to run any front they want. I assume Del Rio knows this and it’s a big reason why he, and for that matter Rivera, came aboard. 

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