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(Polls) Finalists Set: Choose Your Preferred GM/HC Pairing


Mind Character

Which Finalist GM/HC Pairing do you want us to choose?  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Finalist GM/HC Pairing do you want us to choose?

    • GM: Dave Ziegler/Nick Caserio; HC: Josh McDaniels
    • GM: Andrew Berry; HC: Kevin Stefanski
    • GM: Eliot Wolf; HC: Mike McCarthy
  2. 2. Which Pairing will ultimately be selected by the Haslams?

    • GM: Dave Ziegler/Nick Caserio; HC: Josh McDaniels
    • GM: Andrew Berry; HC: Kevin Stefanski
    • GM: Eliot Wolf; HC: Mike McCarthy
  3. 3. Which Pairing has the greatest chance of blowing up in an epic fashion?

    • GM: Dave Ziegler/Nick Caserio; HC: Josh McDaniels
    • GM: Andrew Berry; HC: Kevin Stefanski
    • GM: Eliot Wolf; HC: Mike McCarthy


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7 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Success is a game by game, year by year proposition in the NFL.

The point is that Shumur got multiple QBs of varying skillsets and talents on different teams all to play either at their highest level or a high level: Sam Bradford (Eagles and Philly), Nick Foles, Case Keenum, Daniel Jones, etc.

Bradford had a 76 rating and was his 6th best rating in 9 seasons. 18 TD 15 picks. That was with the Rams. Bradford with the Eagles had 19 TD 14 picks and an 86 rating. Bradford with the Vikings had his best year but when you have the same OC half of your career your best year has a good chance to be with him there.

Foles did great. The next year with Shurmur he didn't. You wouldn't think there would be a huge regression if the credit was due to the OC.

Keenum, yep. Again how much was because of Shurmur I dunno.

Jones didn't have a good season. 18 fumbles and 12 picks in 13 games. Lost 11 fumbles. Needs coached up imo. 24 TD 23 turnovers. Sounds like Baker's season.

 

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Stefanski couln't bring together egos in Minnesota without Gary Kubiak's help ... McDaniels without the force of Belichick clashed with vets and big money players in Denver and in St. Louis ... Mike McCarthy's big ego players criticized him and kicked him while he was going down...

It's an interesting question regarding which Head Coach or which Staff with the Head Coach can command the room and get the respect of our big personalities and big ego players.

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14 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Stefanski couln't bring together egos in Minnesota without Gary Kubiak's help ... McDaniels without the force of Belichick clashed with vets and big money players in Denver and in St. Louis ... Mike McCarthy's big ego players criticized him and kicked him while he was going down...

It's an interesting question regarding which Head Coach or which Staff with the Head Coach can command the room and get the respect of our big personalities and big ego players.

Where did you hear this? I don’t remember Minnesota having a big ego problem. 

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5 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Bradford had a 76 rating and was his 6th best rating in 9 seasons. 18 TD 15 picks. That was with the Rams. Bradford with the Eagles had 19 TD 14 picks and an 86 rating. Bradford with the Vikings had his best year but when you have the same OC half of your career your best year has a good chance to be with him there.

Foles did great. The next year with Shurmur he didn't. You wouldn't think there would be a huge regression if the credit was due to the OC.

Keenum, yep. Again how much was because of Shurmur I dunno.

Jones didn't have a good season. 18 fumbles and 12 picks in 13 games. Lost 11 fumbles. Needs coached up imo. 24 TD 23 turnovers. Sounds like Baker's season.

Being a good coach isn't about turning a nickel into a diamond. It's about maximizing the talent a player has to its fullest and getting them to reach a high level not thought possible.

By all accounts, through an extensive career of QB coaching and OC/QB coaching Shurmur has been good and very good at that task. If your standard is a coach is only really good if he turns okay/good talents into superstars and helps them maintain at that level then no coaches are really going to ever be good by that standard.

Donovan McNabb -- Pat Shurmur was Donovan McNabb's QB Coach from 2002-2008 and McNabb credits Shurmur for his near sustained development even more so than Andy Reid when McNabb started battling injuries after his near MVP 2000 and 2001 season and in his own words "lost a step and didn't know I could back."

Daniel Jones -- Absolutely had a good year for rookie. What's the standard for good year? Was he an elite QB? No. But what was thought of Jones and his skill was clearly maximized despite a trash OLine, UFA and late round picks at WR (Darius Slayton), and injured primary RB. He was a rookie man that had issues in college. Fumbles are a problem. Look at highs. He was #2 in big time throws number and big time throws rating according to analytics. His volatility ratings on the high upswings were the same as the top QBs in the league. His lows were lows. That's by all analytics indicators.

Case Keenum -- You have to give credit to the player and to the coaches. Keenum gives credit to Shurmur for instilling confidence and new vision.

Nick Foles -- How good is Nick Foles? That one year of premium play maximized his potential through the roof.

Sam Bradford -- 2016 after Norv Turner was fired on the Vikings Shurmur came in and had the offense clicking and Bradford playing the best ball of his career. Previously, helped Bradford battle through injuries to good play. Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries.

We just had Ryan Lindley as our QB Coach. If the goal is to have a QB Coach,.that has and can implement a developmental coaching plan... one that can take into account key fundamentals and technique drilling while also helping the QB understand the overall picture of the offense and attacking defenses.. and ultimately how daily QB work helps the QB in a game with a game plan.... I think we'd take that.... few QB Coaches have that depth and experience. Pat Shurmur is one of them though he is not elite... he's a good one and one that could help Baker.

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23 minutes ago, cortes02 said:

If I had to choose, I would want Wolf as GM and Stefanski as HC.  I'm not sure why this is not an option in the poll.

Peace!!!

This is ultimately what I want. Also for sure keeping Depodesta, I really don’t want to lose him. 

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23 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Being a good coach isn't about turning a nickel into a diamond. It's about maximizing the talent a player has to its fullest and getting them to reach a high level not thought possible.

By all accounts, through an extensive career of QB coaching and OC/QB coaching Shurmur has been good and very good at that task. If you're standard is a coach is only really good if he turns okay talents to superstars and helps them maintain at that level then no coaches are really going to ever be good by that standard.

Donovan McNabb -- Pat Shurmur was Donovan McNabb's QB Coach from 2002-2008 and McNabb credits Shurmur for his near sustained development even more so than Andy Reid when McNabb started battling injuries after his near MVP 2000 and 2001 season and in his own words "lost a step and didn't know I could back."

Daniel Jones -- Absolutely had a good year for rookie. What's the standard for good year? Was he an elite QB? No. But what was thought of Jones and his skill was clearly maximized despite a trash OLine, UFA and late round picks at WR (Darius Slayton), and injured primary RB. He was a rookie man that had issues in college. Fumbles are a problem. Look at highs. He was #2 in big time throws number and big time throws rating according to analytics. His volatility ratings on the high upswings were the same as the top QBs in the league. His lows were lows. That's by all analytics indicators.

Case Keenum -- You have to give credit to the player and to the coaches. Keenum gives credit to Shurmur for instilling confidence and new vision.

Nick Foles -- How good is Nick Foles? That one year of premium play maximized his potential through the roof.

Sam Bradford -- 2016 after Norv Turner was fired on the Vikings Shurmur came in and had the offense clicking and Bradford playing the best ball of his career. Previously, helped Bradford battle through injuries to good play. Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries.

I tried to find some references for QBs giving Shurmur the credit, was unsuccessful. You were specific with the details, I suspect you can help me with the links or did they tell you those things privately?

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34 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Where did you hear this? I don’t remember Minnesota having a big ego problem. 

From trusted Minnesota beat writers first which made me confirm and find out more from family I talked to about Stefanski second.

This season Stefon Diggs requested a trade. Adam Theilen was unhappy in the public and more so behind closed doors. Kyle Rudolph and Dalvin Cook wanted the ball more. Mike Zimmer was fueling the fires publicly and behind the scenes. The media was a circus (as much as it can be in Minnesota) around Kirk Cousins and whether or not the team should blow it all up. Stefanski by reports was having a hard time bring the various pieces on the same page, resolving issues, and putting out fires.

Reportedly and apparently Gary Kubiak was the driving force with multiple meetings individually and collectively with Spielman and the players that brought things together. Stefanski played his part but he was secondary according to reports. Zimmer also had Kubiak inject himself more into weekly offensive planning meetings and call scripts. From that point in the season, the offense caught fire and it's been forgotten by NFL fans everywhere.

20 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

He made it up. 

We all can't be oblivious, unaware mouth breathing derp derps ...

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4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I tried to find some references for QBs giving Shurmur the credit, was unsuccessful. You were specific with the details, I suspect you can help me with the links or did they tell you those things privately?

These are not secret private things that only those who have supernatural power are familiar with. Some information is acquired by living with your eyes open while events unfold.

First, I mentioned numerous things about Shurmur's track record of QB coaching success that are just objective realities that can't really be disregarded.

Second, I mentioned only 3 very basic specific things regarding Shurmur that were the following:

1.) McNabb credits Shurmur for his near sustained development even more so than Andy Reid when McNabb started battling injuries after his near MVP 2000 and 2001 season and in his own words "lost a step and didn't know I could back."

2.)" Keenum gives credit to Shurmur for instilling confidence and new vision."

3.)"Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries."

The First thing (McNabb): It's customary for when a Browns Head Coach is hired for fans and followers to go on a search regarding what competent coaches or athletes have to say about the coach. When Pat Shurmur was hired to Cleveland in 2011 various people came out and praised Shurmur for his positive qualities. One of those people who did so was Donovan McNabb who was reflecting on the ups and downs in his career (his career was coming to a close and closed in 2011) and spoke positively about Shurmur's influence in a media hit that I watched because I was a huge fan of McNabb and trusted what he'd say about our new coach. It was there that he told a story about how he had all this pressure on him after finishing 2nd in the MVP race in 2000, but what people didn't know is that as a young player he was mentally feeling it at the same time as battling injuries. He went on to say Shurmur would be a good HC in Cleveland because he helped him take off through injuries. You can take it upon yourself to find what McNabb said in 2011.

The Second thing (Keenum): I watch and listen to basically every Cleveland Browns player or coach presser or media member sit down. A lot of us do. Some of us also have other teams that we follow and do similar things. I've said it before on this board that I lived in Minnesota for 2 years and Detroit. I follow the Vikings and Lions. Keenum when asked about what appeared to be new life and career bests in Minnesota in one of his media hits credited Shurmur for "instilling confidence and new vision.".

The Third Thing (Bradford): I've been evaluating players for years and often name certain one's "My Guys" and follow what they do. Bradford was one of those players coming out of College and I hoped Holmgren would pull off that hot tub trade to get him. I don't follow the Jets but I've seen Sam Darnold pressers. Bradford has commented on the positive impact of Pat Shurmur many times throughout his career often being asked about Pat when they get paired back up on the Eagles and Vikings. In one presser, Sam told the story of how beaten down he was by injury and not trusting his eyes, knees, and mechanics; then went on to say what I said ""Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries."

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9 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

These are not secret private things that only those who have supernatural power are familiar with. Some information is acquired by living with your eyes open while events unfold.

First, I mentioned numerous things about Shurmur's track record of QB coaching success that you are just objective realities that can't really be disregarded.

Second, I mentioned only 3 very basic specific things regarding Shurmur that were the following:

1.) McNabb credits Shurmur for his near sustained development even more so than Andy Reid when McNabb started battling injuries after his near MVP 2000 and 2001 season and in his own words "lost a step and didn't know I could back."

2.)" Keenum gives credit to Shurmur for instilling confidence and new vision."

3.)"Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries."

The First thing (McNabb): It's customary for when a Browns Head Coach is hired for fans and followers to go on a search regarding what competent coaches or athletes have to say about the coach. When Pat Shurmur was hired to Cleveland in 2011 various people came out and praised Shurmur for his positive qualities. One of those people who did so was Donovan McNabb who was reflecting on the ups and downs in his career (his career was coming to a close and closed in 2011) and spoke positively about Shurmur's influence in a media that I watched because I was a huge fan of McNabb and trusted what he'd say about our new coach. It was there that he told a story about how he had all this pressure on him after finishing 2nd in the MVP race in 2000, but what people didn't know is that as a young player he was mentally feeling it at the same time as battling injuries. He went on to say Shurmur would be a good HC in Cleveland because how he helped him take off through injuries. You can take it upon yourself to find what McNabb said in 2011.

The Second thing (Keenum): I watch and listen to basically every Cleveland Browns player or coach presser or media member sit down. A lot of do. Some of us also have other teams that we follow and do similar things. I've said it before on this board that I lived in Minnesota for 2 years and Detroit. I follow the Vikings and Lions. Keenum when asked about what appeared to be new life and career bests in Minnesota in one of his media hits credited Shurmur for "instilling confidence and new vision.

The Third Thing (Bradford): I've been evaluating players for years and often name certain one's "My Guys" and follow what they do. Bradford was one of those players coming out of College and I hope Holmgren would pull off that hot tub trade to get him. I don't follow the Jets but I've seen Sam Darnold pressers. Bradford has commented on the positive impact of Pat Shurmur many times throughout his career often being asked about Pat when they get paired back up on the Eagles and Vikings. In one presser, Sam told the story of how beaten down he was by injury and not trusting his eyes, knees, and mechanics; then went on to say what I said ""Bradford credits Shurmur for rebuilding his confidence and helping him change his style of play in more sustainable ways after repeated devastating knee injuries."

Happened much more recently so if you want to take the time going through internet and .

 

 

Well you stated it as facts, I googled McNabb and Keenum, didn't find anything. A lot of articles and reporters giving credit but no quotes from the QBs. I'm not saying they didn't say it but you were specific I thought maybe you had them or knew where to find them, I didn't realize it was from pressers 15 years ago that you just remember.

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