49ers Stats and Observations

[oldman9er]

didn't want to bump the Vikes GDT but

if someone knows how to gif up the befuddled and disappointed look on Shanny's face after the following play? that would be awesome. 

3rd Q - 1:53 left - 3rd and 1 to go, Joe Staley or Bourne inside?  blocks wrong assignment, leaving the big RE free to make the tackle on Coleman. 

Shanny's just beside himself..  ..   regardless of the 14 point lead. ( love that )

Edited January 15, 2020 by oldman9er

[Chrissooner49er]

19 hours ago, nayad said:

kinda unfair since this includes playoffs but impressive nonetheless 

 True!

I still grin at how many didn't care for this pick....I liked it from the start. Yes, my posts will have aged well if anyone actually cared to go back and look. 

[nayad]

52 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

 True!

I still grin at how many didn't care for this pick....I liked it from the start. Yes, my posts will have aged well if anyone actually cared to go back and look. 

Between this pick and the Kwon Alexander signing its safe to say most this forum is clueless when it comes to LB evaluation. 

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, nayad said:

Between this pick and the Kwon Alexander signing its safe to say most this forum is clueless when it comes to LB evaluation. 

I'm not sure how Kwon factors into that, and judging the evaluation skills of anyone based off a single player's success / failure seems shortsighted to say the least. 

[Chrissooner49er]

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm not sure how Kwon factors into that, and judging the evaluation skills of anyone based off a single player's success / failure seems shortsighted to say the least. 

I believe he is referring to those who believed Kwon was paid too much. 

[Forge]

Just now, Chrissooner49er said:

I believe he is referring to those who believed Kwon was paid too much. 

I would imagine so. That simply has nothing to do with player evaluation. 

[Chrissooner49er]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I would imagine so. That simply has nothing to do with player evaluation. 

It does have to do with value...which plays into evaluation.

[Forge]

5 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

It does have to do with value...which plays into evaluation.

No, it doesn't. Not as a player. Based on his comment, I'm assuming that he's critiquing people's ability to evaluate the talent of said linebackers. Someone can be completely right about a player and not value the position enough to warrant that kind of pay check. These are two completely different things. One is player evaluation from a talent / skill standpoint. The other is a roster building foundation evaluation. 

[nayad]

49 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm not sure how Kwon factors into that, and judging the evaluation skills of anyone based off a single player's success / failure seems shortsighted to say the least. 

You're trying to complicate this by introducing the other variables of team building, but from the simple standpoint of liking and disliking the additions to the linebacker room most were disappointed with Kwon and Dre - and they were wrong. 

[Forge]

13 minutes ago, nayad said:

You're trying to complicate this by introducing the other variables of team building, but from the simple standpoint of liking and disliking the additions to the linebacker room most were disappointed with Kwon and Dre - and they were wrong. 

 I mean, that's not what you said on your original post. But okay, I appreciate the clarification of what you meant. Makes more sense now. 

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I believe he is referring to those who believed Kwon was paid too much. 

Well in all honsetly, he was. I still believe that. Now granted at the time, I  preferenced that if he was brought in to play MLB like he was when in Tampa, it would be a big mistake. But for his injury-filled career up to that point (and still) and for flaws in his game, it was a big gamble to pay that much money to a WILL 'backer. Now to his credit, he cleaned up his tackling and made his presence felt immediately. He has been one of the better FA signings. But like I also said when Greenlaw was drafted, it wouldn't surprise if they were already preparing for life w/o him if he didn't live up to expectations. 

And I also think it speaks to his value that a 5th round rookie could come in replace Kwon with little drop off in quality of play. Greenlaw is not Kwon in terms of experience and recognition. Probably not as fast either but its hard not ot envision him being up there as one of the better WILL's in the league in a few years. So that means his production could be replaced as early as next year for a fraction of the cost, if Lynch and Co. felt as though that needed happen. 

[Forge]

16 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Well in all honsetly, he was. I still believe that. Now granted at the time, I  preferenced that if he was brought in to play MLB like he was when in Tampa, it would be a big mistake. But for his injury-filled career up to that point (and still) and for flaws in his game, it was a big gamble to pay that much money to a WILL 'backer. Now to his credit, he cleaned up his tackling and made his presence felt immediately. He has been one of the better FA signings. But like I also said when Greenlaw was drafted, it wouldn't surprise if they were already preparing for life w/o him if he didn't live up to expectations. 

And I also think it speaks to his value that a 5th round rookie could come in replace Kwon with little drop off in quality of play. Greenlaw is not Kwon in terms of experience and recognition. Probably not as fast either but its hard not ot envision him being up there as one of the better WILL's in the league in a few years. So that means his production could be replaced as early as next year for a fraction of the cost, if Lynch and Co. felt as though that needed happen. 

To the bolded, I suppose it depends. I hate the miss tackle stat because like drops, it's highly subjective based on who's doing the counting in my opinion. But pro football referenced basically had him with one of the highest missed tackle rates in the NFL this year. I think he would have been second or third worst. It was 7 points higher than his miss rate last year with the Bucs at 17% (Warner I think was at 12, and I think Greenlaw is credited with all of 2 missed tackles the entire year). 

 Now, I don't personally remember all these supposed missed tackles. Not at that rate anyway. I think that would have been something that a few posters would have picked up on in the game day threads lol. 

Also, your second paragraph is exactly why I don't put that sort of emphasis on the position with regards to high dollar contracts, a statement and philosophy I have espoused quite a bit. I think linebackers like Kwon are basically what the NCAA is churning out now, and I think it will be easier to have cheap, good labor at the position. I never had issues with Kwon as a player, just like I didn't with Jet, but those are definitely not contracts I would have given out either. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

[757-NINER]

13 minutes ago, Forge said:

To the bolded, I suppose it depends. I hate the miss tackle stat because like drops, it's highly subjective based on who's doing the counting in my opinion. But pro football referenced basically had him with one of the highest missed tackle rates in the NFL this year. I think he would have been second or third worst. It was 7 points higher than his miss rate last year with the Bucs at 17% (Warner I think was at 12, and I think Greenlaw is credited with all of 2 missed tackles the entire year). 

 Now, I don't personally remember all these supposed missed tackles. Not at that rate anyway. I think that would have been something that a few posters would have picked up on in the game day threads lol. 

Also, your second paragraph is exactly why I don't put that sort of emphasis on the position with regards to high dollar contracts, a statement and philosophy I have espoused quite a bit. I think linebackers like Kwon are basically what the NCAA is churning out now, and I think it will be easier to have cheap, good labor at the position. I never had issues with Kwon as a player, just like I didn't with Jet, but those are definitely not contracts I would have given out either. 

Yea, I'm just going by the naked eye. I have a good friend who's a big Bucs fan so I saw a slew of their games when he was in Tampa and it was noticeable how many times he would whiff and try to go for a big hit. Think Reuben Foster in 2018 for us. This year, I really didn't notice those instances. He seemed much more discplined and sound in that regard. He may have over-ran a play here or there but he didn't whiff nearly to the extent that I remembered. 

And to your last point, I couldn't agree more. That's why I liked the Greenlaw pick. Most saw a smallish MLB who couldn't shed blocks. I saw a WILL that was a former safety who could cover and fly to the ball. In this scheme in particular, that's all you need out of your outside LBs. That's why Kwon has thrived here. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by 757-NINER

[oldman9er]

2 hours ago, nayad said:

You're trying to complicate this by introducing the other variables of team building, but from the simple standpoint of liking and disliking the additions to the linebacker room most were disappointed with Kwon and Dre - and they were wrong. 

Well, when folks are paid by this team to be right, that's when it should matter. Until then, being wrong about a great many things is every FootballsFuture poster's unwavering right.. and they exercise it with great emotion.  

I don't even remember exactly where I stood on these two, and I don't go back thru old threads to opinion-shame self or others.  

My guess is that I liked the Kwon addition but did feel it was an overpay.. one that I could probably live with after seeing contract details.

My guess is that I was so butthurt after the Hurd selection that I was fairly indifferent of the Greenlaw pick.. but that it wasn't a pick that I loved or detested. 

Now good day sir!