Offseason Thread

[JonMcC2018]

Off the top of my head the teams in the market for a starting QB are potentially:

Dolphins

Bengals

Colts

Titans

Raiders

Chargers

Broncos

Bears

Bucs

Panthers

So that's a lot of options. Whilst he is 42 and showing decline it's hard to believe that at least one of those teams doesn't look to make Brady a short term offer better than what the Patriots are willing to give him.

I think Brady desperately wants to finish his career in New England but has grown resentful of taking less than his market worth and he'll be gone. I reckon to the...... Bucs.

 

 

[DoleINGout]

3 hours ago, JonMcC2018 said:

I reckon to the...... Bucs.

🤨

[Hunter2_1]

I just can't see it. 

For one thing we actually NEED him. Who else is out there? For him, I doubt he wants this dramatic shift this late in his career. All the upheaval of moving, learning a whole new system and playbook, learning to gel with his new WRs (which is apparently damned hard), he won't be the 'guy' in a new locker room straight away etc. 

 

He's ours.

[jofos]

I just don't get why everyone says Brady is suddenly looking for a big contract. If he took most of his entire career because he wanted a better chance to win, why at the end would he suddenly change? 

[mission27]

Its going to be funny to watch the "Pats should've kept Garropolo and traded Brady" narrative over the next week or so, especially if the 49ers win

Like forgetting Brady started the last two Super Bowls and won one putting up much bigger numbers than 6 completions in the Conference CG lol

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, mission27 said:

Its going to be funny to watch the "Pats should've kept Garropolo and traded Brady" narrative over the next week or so, especially if the 49ers win

Like forgetting Brady started the last two Super Bowls and won one putting up much bigger numbers than 6 completions in the Conference CG lol

I mean, do you feel content if those are the last two championships the franchise wins for the next 20 years? Or would you rather have kept the guy that would likely ensure you maintained a stranglehold on the division and possibly the conference for another decade or more?

There's no right or wrong answer because you're positing an alternative reality but if Garoppolo has an MVP type performance in this game and continues to pile up wins, it's going to be increasingly hard to justify the choice the team made.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Starless

[JonMcC2018]

11 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I just can't see it. 

For one thing we actually NEED him. Who else is out there? For him, I doubt he wants this dramatic shift this late in his career. All the upheaval of moving, learning a whole new system and playbook, learning to gel with his new WRs (which is apparently damned hard), he won't be the 'guy' in a new locker room straight away etc. 

 

He's ours.

Whilst all of that is true, from the outside looking in two things seem clear:

1. Brady wants a reasonable length contract (2-3 years) which pays him good money

2. The Patriots don't want to give it to him.

So it's really up to Brady. He might take whatever the Pats offer, or if he gets offered crazy money he might go elsewhere. Or he might choose to retire.

My gut feel is that Belichick has made the decision to move on and is low-balling Brady knowing that either he gets Brady back on the cheap or he can go ahead work with a new QB. Who do you think is leaking these kind of stories to the media - https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/09/peter-king-sees-andy-dalton-patriots-candidate-replace-tom-brady/4425745002/

[DoleINGout]

9 hours ago, Starless said:

I mean, do you feel content if those are the last two championships the franchise wins for the next 20 years? Or would you rather have kept the guy that would likely ensure you maintained a stranglehold on the division and possibly the conference for another decade or more?

There's no right or wrong answer because you're positing an alternative reality but if Garoppolo has an MVP type performance in this game and continues to pile up wins, it's going to be increasingly hard to justify the choice the team made.

Jimmy is overrated. He threw eight passes in the entire NFC Championship and the team won. I think Nathan Pederman could have been the QB and the Niners would have won that game.

I will forever be grateful Garoppolo was traded away. He is not the answer.

But Brissett for Dorsett? No. Just no. Why!!!

[mission27]

9 hours ago, Starless said:

I mean, do you feel content if those are the last two championships the franchise wins for the next 20 years? Or would you rather have kept the guy that would likely ensure you maintained a stranglehold on the division and possibly the conference for another decade or more?

There's no right or wrong answer because you're positing an alternative reality but if Garoppolo has an MVP type performance in this game and continues to pile up wins, it's going to be increasingly hard to justify the choice the team made.

If the options are...

1. Go on an epic 5 year run where we make 4 super bowls and win 3, but then Brady leaves / retires and we suck for 10 years 

Or

2. Get rid of Brady and have an above average QB for 15 years who keeps us in the playoff picture but no guarantee we get over the hump

I'm going #1 100% of the time and its not even close

There seems to be a perception among some Pats fans that if Jimmy were a good QB, and stuck around long enough, over the course of 15 year he would've stumbled into a couple of Super Bowls as a matter of course.  Just not true

Aaron Rodgers is one of the top-3 QBs in the league over his career and he's been to and won 1 Super Bowl

Drew Brees has won 1 Super Bowl

Jimmy isn't on that level yet, not even really close.  He's more of a Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Phillip Rivers level QB... none of those guys have won a Super Bowl

I guess my point is if we dumped Brady at the start of 2017 and Jimmy went on to lead us to 2 Super Bowls over the next decade, winning one, most would view that as a massive success of a transition... that's basically what the 49ers got out of Steve Young... Brady did the equivalent in 3 years.

If we dumped Brady at the start of 2014 and Jimmy went on to lead us to 4 Super Bowls over the next 15 years, winning 3, he'd be viewed as one of the GOAT (heck that's Brady's resume circa 2010) and Brady did that over a 5 year period 

When you have the best player in the league and a championship window you dont dump them for an above average player who happens to be younger, you take your shot, and especially when that shot works and you win 3 championships late in the window, its hard to see the argument for criticizing taking thta shot

[mission27]

There are probably some who say we could've won the last couple of SB with Jimmy starting.

I dont think Jimmy has shown us anything yet to believe he could've led the comeback against the Falcons or the GWD against the Chiefs or stepped up the way Brady has in any number of spots over the last few years, even if his general production has declined a bit. 

You cant really know what would've have happened "if" but we know what the Pats did and we know it worked out extremely well, so the inevitable criticism is and will always be BS

[mission27]

5 hours ago, JonMcC2018 said:

Whilst all of that is true, from the outside looking in two things seem clear:

1. Brady wants a reasonable length contract (2-3 years) which pays him good money

2. The Patriots don't want to give it to him.

So it's really up to Brady. He might take whatever the Pats offer, or if he gets offered crazy money he might go elsewhere. Or he might choose to retire.

My gut feel is that Belichick has made the decision to move on and is low-balling Brady knowing that either he gets Brady back on the cheap or he can go ahead work with a new QB. Who do you think is leaking these kind of stories to the media - https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/09/peter-king-sees-andy-dalton-patriots-candidate-replace-tom-brady/4425745002/

You could be right, I hope you're not. 

If they arent willing to give him a 2 year contract at market rate that's a scandal.  The guy has earned it and is still an elite QB and our offense last season with ANDY DALTON would've scored 3 points per game.

[NorthernPat]

4 hours ago, JonMcC2018 said:

Whilst all of that is true, from the outside looking in two things seem clear:

1. Brady wants a reasonable length contract (2-3 years) which pays him good money

2. The Patriots don't want to give it to him.

So it's really up to Brady. He might take whatever the Pats offer, or if he gets offered crazy money he might go elsewhere. Or he might choose to retire.

My gut feel is that Belichick has made the decision to move on and is low-balling Brady knowing that either he gets Brady back on the cheap or he can go ahead work with a new QB. Who do you think is leaking these kind of stories to the media - https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/09/peter-king-sees-andy-dalton-patriots-candidate-replace-tom-brady/4425745002/

I think everyone is downplaying the role Robert Kraft will have in this process. Kraft will do whatever it takes to make sure Brady retires a Patriot. That may involve some friction between him and Belichick if the latter truly doesn't want to pay top-5 money to a QB, and that's if Tom even wants top-5 money. Tom probably wants a commitment to field better offensive personnel. Bonus points if they can convince Gronk to make another run(actually that would guarantee TB12 returns). Expect an offense-heavy free agency, and a defense-heavy draft, with a few cap-clearing trades and releases to free up enough space to sign some targets. Most of these stories are just clickbait, nothing new for the Patriots.

[Deadpulse]

6 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Jimmy isn't on that level yet, not even really close.  He's more of a Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Phillip Rivers level QB... none of those guys have won a Super Bowl

Even this is overstating Jimmy at this point in time. He is a game manager right now. He is Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens. He is Rex Grossman on the 06 Bears. He is Brad Johnson on the 02 Bucs. 

[mission27]

20 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Even this is overstating Jimmy at this point in time. He is a game manager right now. He is Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens. He is Rex Grossman on the 06 Bears. He is Brad Johnson on the 02 Bucs. 

Idk if that's totally fair, Jimmy had a higher passer rating and more touchdowns than Matt Ryan or Phillip Rivers this season.  Yeah it was a down year for those guys but you could make a case the season Jimmy just had would be above average in either's career. 

I think we need to make a distinction between level of play and volume production.  Jimmy is not asked to do as much as some of the other guys because he's got a great running game and a great defense.  Doesnt mean he isnt playing at a high level. 

At the end of the day, a 100+ passer rating on a 13-3 team is a really good season and not Rex Grossman like.

 

[JonMcC2018]

13 minutes ago, NorthernPat said:

I think everyone is downplaying the role Robert Kraft will have in this process. Kraft will do whatever it takes to make sure Brady retires a Patriot. That may involve some friction between him and Belichick if the latter truly doesn't want to pay top-5 money to a QB, and that's if Tom even wants top-5 money. Tom probably wants a commitment to field better offensive personnel. Bonus points if they can convince Gronk to make another run(actually that would guarantee TB12 returns). Expect an offense-heavy free agency, and a defense-heavy draft, with a few cap-clearing trades and releases to free up enough space to sign some targets. Most of these stories are just clickbait, nothing new for the Patriots.

No doubt. If it weren't for Kraft i think Brady would be gone and the Pats would be rolling with Jimmy G at quarterback by now.

But it seems pretty clear that these stories aren't just clickbait. If Bill had wanted to give Brady a decent extension he'd have done it last year. Instead he gave him a one year rental which guaranteed Brady would become a free agent. And I can't image anything Bill has seen in the last year from Brady makes it more likely that he'd offer that deal now.