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Elky

Offseason Thread

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4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

he averaged 15 yards per game, and failed to gain the confidence of the greatest QB ever

Really? You're going to stretch out an average over a full season in which he was injured and didn't even participate in most games? Pretty hard to expect a receiver to adapt to Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in his first year in the system, especially as a rookie. There have been plenty of veteran receivers who have had hall of fame credentials that couldn't cut it in the Patriots offense or get on the same page as Brady. To put it all on Brady like you have in this quote is ridiculous.

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12 hours ago, jofos said:

That doesn't change the fact that he is only .02 seconds faster than Harry and that's what we were talking about.

Forget the Combine, more evidence that it doesn't mean a thing for the mosy part.

The fact is Harry sucks and we all knew what was going to happen. Major waste of a pick.

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I am all for questioning, criticizing, and observing picks based on their value. Rather than lamenting the player/person themselves, as they're not the ones responsible for ending up on the team that chose them.

(Unless you're from Rutgers and cheat because Devin McCourty gives you all the answers/drills and then get overvalued. I'm looking at you Duron Harmon and Logan Ryan.)

But what I find asinine about the Harry stuff is the amount of expectation placed upon him to produce despite being injured during his rookie season and not having time to develop like a typical player.

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Just now, DoleINGout said:

I am all for questioning, criticizing, and observing picks based on their value. Rather than lamenting the player/person themselves, as they're not the ones responsible for ending up on the team that chose them.

(Unless you're from Rutgers and cheat because Devin McCourty gives you all the answers/drills and then get overvalued. I'm looking at you Duron Harmon and Logan Ryan.)

But what I find asinine about the Harry stuff is the amount of expectation placed upon him to produce despite being injured during his rookie season and not having time to develop like a typical player.

We're not expecting Randy Moss out of the gate, we're expecting you not to be a liability on every snap you're on.

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1 hour ago, Elky said:

We're not expecting Randy Moss out of the gate, we're expecting you not to be a liability on every snap you're on.

Unfair characterization. Harry was one of the few Patriots players on offense that did anything in their playoff loss to the Titans. His touchdown that was wrongly called off would have been the play that potentially allowed the Patriots to win.

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1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

But what I find asinine about the Harry stuff is the amount of expectation placed upon him to produce despite being injured during his rookie season and not having time to develop like a typical player.

I just don't agree with why Harry is the one seemingly chosen here to be the scapegoat. I think it's the same with Sony Michel. What this points to is the now obvious trend of overall poor draft evaluations made by the Patriots. I don't think Harry or Michel are bad by any means, but half of the other picks the Patriots have made in the Belichick era - especially in the last ten years - have proven to be grossly overvalued and the use of those picks has been inefficient relative to total draft capital that has been at the Patriots disposal those years.

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I find it funny that an article about Harry working on his footwork some how shows he is awful but an article about Brady working with Tom House to improve his mechanics proves that he is the GOAT. 

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23 hours ago, jofos said:

Michael Thomas ran a 4.57 his 40 time isn't as bad as it might seem. But I agree that he looked slow at times but at other times he looked pretty good. it could have been a result of his injury, not being sure of himself as to what read to make, or he could just be bad. I think letting him have a healthy season will go a long way to making that determination. 

The times might be the same but the wasted motion killed him. MT get off the line much quicker and with his size he create fear. Something Harry has to do to be effective. I hope the work pays off.  At least he's a worker and a WR without a big ego.  If not we can add 10/15 LBS on him and turn him into a (Shannon Sharp) TE. :D

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13 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

you have to question the pick in the first instance. Was this really a first round talent?

Bingo.   I still can't figure out why the Pats picked him.

What did they see other than his size.  You look at the tape, numbers etc... and compare him to Deebo Samuel. That's what baffles me.  " Hey Bill these are the two WR were looking at what to you think!!!! ""

Like to add another thought.  Cordelle Paterson (Rated top WR)  was on the board when the Pats traded the pick to Vikings. Pats desperate need at the time. He passed, thank God but he turns around and takes Harry.  Why so inconsistent

Lastly, I from the camp that hates WR and RB in the 1st round.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I am all for questioning, criticizing, and observing picks based on their value. Rather than lamenting the player/person themselves, as they're not the ones responsible for ending up on the team that chose them.

(Unless you're from Rutgers and cheat because Devin McCourty gives you all the answers/drills and then get overvalued. I'm looking at you Duron Harmon and Logan Ryan.)

But what I find asinine about the Harry stuff is the amount of expectation placed upon him to produce despite being injured during his rookie season and not having time to develop like a typical player.

Well your take is he a rookie and he was injured and that was his problem, which i disagree.  I look at when he played and how he moved. Ya , he was a rook and injured but he was a 1st RD pick and his game is raw at best.  My opinion on him is spot on.  Even Harry knows he needs work.  A 1st RD pick that has to learn how to move!. IMO that more like a 3/4 RD pick.

Also BB would not put a rookie in if he couldn't go.

Edited by m haynes

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Posted (edited)
On 20/05/2020 at 1:06 PM, DoleINGout said:

Really? You're going to stretch out an average over a full season in which he was injured and didn't even participate in most games? Pretty hard to expect a receiver to adapt to Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in his first year in the system, especially as a rookie. There have been plenty of veteran receivers who have had hall of fame credentials that couldn't cut it in the Patriots offense or get on the same page as Brady. To put it all on Brady like you have in this quote is ridiculous.

Well that's the good thing about averages, it's an average! It doesn't just take one game into account, it takes an available body of work into account.

 

And you disregard the rest of the post. What exactly have I said that's so egregious to you? Read the rest of it. 

 

'put it all on Brady like you have' - you have weird takes at the best of times, but this is up there. Where, how, what?!

 

One more thing - you are blowing up our expectations. My expectation is to play like a first round pick. I do expect him to, eventually. Just saying he didn't live up to that when he did play. That's factual. I don't expect Randy Moss.

Edited by Hunter2_1

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

put it all on Brady like you have' - you have weird takes at the best of times, but this is up there. Where, how, what?!

 

You said Harry "failed to gain the confidence of the greatest QB of all time". By saying that, it implies Harry assumes the entire responsibility for a lack of a connection with another person. What I meant to say is, "To put it all on Harry like you have in [your original post] is ridiculous." My mistake for probably tiredly putting Brady's name instead of Harry's. Hope that clears up what I was saying.

 

12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

One more thing - you are blowing up our expectations.

I am not saying anyone expects Randy Moss. I am saying the slander on Harry based on a failure to live up to typical rookie standards is ludicrous because Harry was out most of his rookie year from preseason on which is a critical part of rookie development. The lack of development due to missed time is an obvious aspect.

Edited by DoleINGout
grammar clarification and spelling, tired oversight again

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On 5/20/2020 at 8:19 AM, Elky said:

Forget the Combine, more evidence that it doesn't mean a thing for the mosy part.

The fact is Harry sucks and we all knew what was going to happen. Major waste of a pick.

BB doesn’t know s*** about drafting WRs. It is what it is at this point. We have a 20 year plus sample size now. This hasn’t really mattered much when you have Tom Brady at QB but it’s going to be more important going forward 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2020 at 1:36 PM, DoleINGout said:

The lack of development due to missed time is an obvious aspect.

Let me try to clear this up.  Its not his skill to play WR, we all no he can do that. Its taking a kid in the 1st RD that skills that may not translate in the NFL as a number 1 WR.   His speed and quickness is average at best.  He could play for the Pats a long time however you don't draft a WR to be your 3rd or 4th option.

Just look at Deebo Samuals and compare natural abilities. It no contest. They only thing Harry has over him is size which mean nothing if he to slow and can't get separation.

Lets me ask who would you take if you made the pick. I know I would of taken Deebo.  He's another,  they take Dugger on his all round physical gifts which is the exact opposites when they you compare Deebo and Harry.

Hunter said,  Pats horrible (WR) 20 year sample size.    Maybe they need to look less at size and more on natural abilities.

 

Edited by m haynes
tired to much celabration.

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