Divisional Round: VIKINGS (11-6) at 49ers (13-3)

[Robb_K]

4 hours ago, swede700 said:

I just plainly disagree that it's a play not to lose philosophy.  The "prevent" defense is a play not to lose philosophy.  Playing "not to turnover the ball" is a winning philosophy when you don't have a QB that can win a game on his own.  The reality is, whether you want to call him a high-end placeholder or not, that is Kirk Cousins, to a tee.  He can't win a game on his own, but if you protect him, he can do real well.  The best way to protect him is to run the ball.  If they can get a QB who can win a game on his own, maybe I'd think differently, but considering the QB they have now, it is the best way to put the team, as a whole, in a position to succeed.  

Exactly THIS.  Kirk Cousins is NOT a QB that can win a game on his own.  He has flaws that need to be "covered up", or protected against being exploited, by his team.  The Vikings' failure to establish a running game vs, The 49ers (unlike what they did against The Saints), allowed The 49ers to disregard the run, and allow their rushers to pin back their ears and concentrate on rushing the passer, and to keep more players in the backfield to cover potential pass receivers.  The play-action passing game, successful vs, The Saints, was almost totally ineffective vs. The 49ers.  Had Zimmer and staff tried to have Cousins pass significantly more than he did, and send more throws farther downfield, The Vikings would have lost by a significantly greater margin, and been knocked out of the game much earlier.  It would have led to more sacks, an interception or two, and probably a few strip fumbles by Cousins.

The Vikings need to build a significantly better team around Cousins.  But, spending so much to have him on the team really hurts any effort to add difference-makers in their weakest positions.  I don't think they should extend him unless he is willing to take a really drastic team-friendly discount, way below his free agent "market rate"  because he wants to stay with a relatively good team, who can be strong team, only if he doesn't strap the team's effort to improve by demanding a UFA "market rate", leaving the team little room under the cap.  The Vikings need to be lucky and move up in the draft in a year when several really talented QBs are available, and draft a known "good talent". who is a sleeper, and turns into a phenom.  Cousins is a "stop-gap" to get us through the next few years, when we have to retool.  Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, are on the downslope.  Kendricks, Barr, Smith are kids no more.  The Vikings will have trouble keeping their window open if they can't bring in a substantial number of youthful difference-makers.  They also need to get more "teachers" on their staff, to help develop their young players into competent first-stringers (especially on the OL, but also in most of the other areas.

 

[Heimdallr]

If anyone wants to respond to @Robb_K's (quality) post above, please do so in either Kirk thread or the 2020/2021 thread since we don't need to go into detailed team-building philosophy in a GDT.

[SotanKing]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:05 PM, J-ALL-DAY said:

I know Diggs got the one long TD, but our defense doesn't allow many big plays. Allowed the least amount of 20+ plays on defense. All our corners play the deep ball very well and Ward has been a great eraser. Granted, Witherspoon badly played the deep ball to Diggs as that should have been picked, but that's not really how you beat this defense. The way to beat it is with a bunch of quick hitters taking the pass rush out of the game. So back to the poster who said yesterday that you guys have no quick game and that's a problem, I totally agree. Whoever the OC is next season needs to add that to the offense. Then you pretty much have it all offensively. If you guys hire Shurmur again, does he implement that in his offense? 

I would like to have a quick passing scheme that can hide ineptness of this OLine but going by Zimmer's press conference 2 days back, I don't think it's gonna change. They seem to prefer to stick with current scheme even though Stefanski has left.

I am also aware that Niners don't allow much explosive plays but there were still openings on multiple plays where the WRs did get separation but Vikings couldn't make use of that due to Kirk taking a checkdown or getting sacked as OLine could not block for ****. You can look at some of the plays in this thread - 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by upriser7

[Cearbhall]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:47 PM, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean go for it, we will see how it works out. But not being able to win it all doesn't mean he's not a good coach or needs to be replaced. Should Andy Reid be replaced in KC since he never gets it done? 

 

Philly got fed up with Reid's playoff failures and moves on. It didn't work so well for them right away when they hired Chip Kelly. However, they turned the page again and they won a Superbowl.

I wouldn't expect anything better in Minnesota. When the team moves on from Zimmer it is very likely the next coach will be far worse. But if they keep swinging hard eventually they will knock one out of the park.

I am not in favor of moving on from coach Zimmer, but I can understand the thinking behind it and would not use Andy Reid as an example of why the team should keep Zimmer. Andy Reid's history is more of an example of what may happen when the team moves on, but since that led to a Super Bowl title in that case I wouldn't use it as an argument to stick with Zimmer.

I didn't get to watch the Vikings closely since I was down in Texas watching a championship team. I did record the game though and watching it back, knowing the outcome, very clearly reinforces my thinking after the season a year ago. The team needed a drastic upgrade on the offensive line or it would be their undoing again. Relying on Pat Elflein to start was foolish. Relying on a rookie to start was foolish. Sadly, my thinking was proven correct in a resounding fashion on Saturday. I would have rather been wrong.

Until the Vikings get a GM that can provide better results along the offensive line I do not really think that it matters who the coach is. The trenches are too important and forcing a coach to try and climb that hill is simply asking too much. I really like coach Zimmer but I understand that turning over the GM position likely means moving on to a new coach. That is too bad but I am not afraid of the possibility of being worse. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take a couple steps forwards. I am sick and tired of otherwise really good teams having their chances flushed down the toilet by the same position group over and over again. I have 0.0% confidence in Rick Spielman's ability to bring the results that I want.

I hoped and rooted for better but this game brought exactly what I expected. At least I wasn't disappointed.

[vike daddy]

The Vikings and 49ers disagreed about whether 49ers defensive end Nick Bosa took a cheap shot at Vikings offensive tackle Brian O’Neill last weekend. The NFL sided with the Vikings, fining Bosa $28,075 for the illegal blindside block he laid on O’Neill, which also drew a 15-yard penalty.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/18/nick-bosa-fined-for-blindside-block/

[marshpit23]

48 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

The Vikings and 49ers disagreed about whether 49ers defensive end Nick Bosa took a cheap shot at Vikings offensive tackle Brian O’Neill last weekend. The NFL sided with the Vikings, fining Bosa $28,075 for the illegal blindside block he laid on O’Neill, which also drew a 15-yard penalty.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/18/nick-bosa-fined-for-blindside-block/

Well, that’s the issue. A fifteen yard penalty for a flagrant injury vs an automatic ejection. Bosa should have been thrown out of the game, IMO.