RandyMossIsBoss Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, nlesthought said: No to Cooks I have already expressed the idea of trading Ertz....this offense isn’t built around 2 TEs we played two because of all the injuries at WR. We've been playing 2 TEs since Doug came. Why did we draft Goedert if 2 TE sets are not a major part of the offense? Think the team was already thinking of moving Ertz? He was only 28 and coming off his best year. Doesn't add up to me. I think Doug wants to run his offense using 2 TEs. Total TE snaps, and the % of 2 TE sets (if we assume no 3 TE sets, which is obviously not true but I have no way of seeing exact numbers for x-2 personnel, so real number of 2 TE set % will be a bit lower) 2016- 1617 TE snaps, 43% 2 TE sets 2017- 1541 TE snaps, 36.3% 2 TE sets 2018- 1660 TE snaps, 52% 2 TE sets 2019- 1844 TE snaps, 58.4% 2 TE sets Even that 2017 figure, lowest of Doug era (and our best year of WR play, so perhaps a good indication of our use of 2 TE sets when not out of desperation), is very high compared to rest of league. Of course Doug could always change the offense, but just saying, that Goedert pick to me was very telling of Doug's intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustrianEagle Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) how far could we trade up with our 1st, a 4th, goedert and rasul? i would prefer trading ertz and keeping goedert but i see no way they are gonna trade ertz away. but i think we could at least use goedert as trade asset before he leaves im two years. no way we can afford him after his rookie contract and still pay ertz (wich howie will do until zach is 45). Edited March 28, 2020 by AustrianEagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, ninjapirate said: If you look over stats the past few years 2 tight end sets has been our best unit. Even in 2017. No way 2017. Ertz had a good year, Burton had a couple nice games and Celek blocked. WR had a way better year. Almost 2000 yards between the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: We've been playing 2 TEs since Doug came. Why did we draft Goedert if 2 TE sets are not a major part of the offense? Think the team was already thinking of moving Ertz? He was only 28 and coming off his best year. Doesn't add up to me. I think Doug wants to run his offense using 2 TEs. Total TE snaps, and the % of 2 TE sets (if we assume no 3 TE sets, which is obviously not true but I have no way of seeing exact numbers for x-2 personnel, so real number of 2 TE set % will be a bit lower) 2016- 1617 TE snaps, 43% 2 TE sets 2017- 1541 TE snaps, 36.3% 2 TE sets 2018- 1660 TE snaps, 52% 2 TE sets 2019- 1844 TE snaps, 58.4% 2 TE sets Even that 2017 figure, lowest of Doug era (and our best year of WR play, so perhaps a good indication of our use of 2 TE sets when not out of desperation), is very high compared to rest of league. Of course Doug could always change the offense, but just saying, that Goedert pick to me was very telling of Doug's intentions. I don’t know why you keep banging this drum. Yes, we use them. More than most. Why does this equal good or effective for you? Sure the numbers don’t explain the WR woes, and like I said, if everyone is contributing that two TE set featuring Ertz and Goedert is lights out but clearly when we overuse it, we struggle. The teams offense has falling off every year since the super bowl. Jamming another TE out there in place of a dynamic slot or a shifty RB is slowing down the offense and makes us a plodding team that plays within the sticks. No more evidence than this past year. Ertz had his second best year, Goedert his best (albeit only his second year) and the offense was anemic. They’re limiting Wentz. He’s best when he’s got reliable targets downfield. We’re running a Sam Bradford offense with a fleet of foot Ben Roethlisberger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: I don’t know why you keep banging this drum. Yes, we use them. More than most. Why does this equal good or effective for you? Sure the numbers don’t explain the WR woes, and like I said, if everyone is contributing that two TE set featuring Ertz and Goedert is lights out but clearly when we overuse it, we struggle. The teams offense has falling off every year since the super bowl. Jamming another TE out there in place of a dynamic slot or a shifty RB is slowing down the offense and makes us a plodding team that plays within the sticks. No more evidence than this past year. Ertz had his second best year, Goedert his best (albeit only his second year) and the offense was anemic. They’re limiting Wentz. He’s best when he’s got reliable targets downfield. We’re running a Sam Bradford offense with a fleet of foot Ben Roethlisberger. Has the fall been all receivers though? I think Wentz not being healthy and seemingly taking a step back after his injuries has a part to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: I don’t know why you keep banging this drum. Yes, we use them. More than most. Why does this equal good or effective for you? Sure the numbers don’t explain the WR woes, and like I said, if everyone is contributing that two TE set featuring Ertz and Goedert is lights out but clearly when we overuse it, we struggle. The teams offense has falling off every year since the super bowl. Jamming another TE out there in place of a dynamic slot or a shifty RB is slowing down the offense and makes us a plodding team that plays within the sticks. No more evidence than this past year. Ertz had his second best year, Goedert his best (albeit only his second year) and the offense was anemic. They’re limiting Wentz. He’s best when he’s got reliable targets downfield. We’re running a Sam Bradford offense with a fleet of foot Ben Roethlisberger. I don't know where you got the idea I love 2 TE sets or am making any argument about their effectiveness, I am simply pointing out that Doug has always used 2 TE sets, so neither Ertz or Dallas are expendable assets. They would need to be replaced. Personally, I would rather not have to do that. If Doug decides he does not want to employ x-2 personnel 1/3 to 1/2 of the time, then yes we should go ahead and trade for either Ertz or Dallas, but I am of the belief it's part of his philosophy and preference so it will not change since he was able to have success with it in 2017... although maybe 2 years of weak WR play, strong TE play, and average at best offense, will change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: although maybe 2 years of weak WR play, strong TE play, and average at best offense, will change that. Why would 2 years where your tight ends have been better than your receivers convince you to trade 1 or stop using them? That's more a ringing endorsement. Edited March 28, 2020 by ninjapirate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, AustrianEagle said: how far could we trade up with our 1st, a 4th, goedert and rasul? 23, 24 maybe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, AustrianEagle said: how far could we trade up with our 1st, a 4th, goedert and rasul? If you value Goedert as a mid 2nd, going off the chart, technically we could get into the top ten with that. However I don’t see teams really jumping for that package. So I’d say maybe #11 is the max because of the Jets. Points-wise we could also trade our 2nd plus Goedert to get back into the back 8ish of Round 1. We could go nuts and trade our 3rd to move up for Jeudy, then trade the 2nd+DG to get back into the 1st and get Mims then wait til day 3 to get LBs, a TE, OL depth, another RB. Double our chances that one of these top 5 WRs becomes a legit star. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Just now, Kiltman said: If you value Goedert as a mid 2nd, going off the chart, technically we could get into the top ten with that. However I don’t see teams really jumping for that package. So I’d say maybe #11 is the max because of the Jets. Points-wise we could also trade our 2nd plus Goedert to get back into the back 8ish of Round 1. We could go nuts and trade our 3rd to move up for Jeudy, then trade the 2nd+DG to get back into the 1st and get Mims then wait til day 3 to get LBs, a TE, OL depth, another RB. Double our chances that one of these top 5 WRs becomes a legit star. The correct answer to his question is "why the hell would we trade our only good young receiving option to trade up to draft a receiver?" Come on kilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, ninjapirate said: The correct answer to his question is "why the hell would we trade our only good young receiving option to trade up to draft a receiver?" Come on kilty. We won’t unless the coaching staff admits they simply don’t want to do 2 TE sets. Like they seem to struggle sticking to. Also if they know Goedert won’t stay long term. It’s a way to get better value for him. Just throwing it out there as a “you could technically do this” sorta thing. I don’t think it would happen nor should it necessarily, though Mims is better than anything on the board in the 2nd round and has a potentially bigger overall impact than a tightend they don’t seem to want to keep on the field. I think no matter what we will get a 3rd round pick for Goedert by way of comp pick. So I’m not itchy to move him. We need a high end tightend here to help the offense run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Kiltman said: We won’t unless the coaching staff admits they simply don’t want to do 2 TE sets. Like they seem to struggle sticking to. Also if they know Goedert won’t stay long term. It’s a way to get better value for him. Just throwing it out there as a “you could technically do this” sorta thing. I don’t think it would happen nor should it necessarily, though Mims is better than anything on the board in the 2nd round and has a potentially bigger overall impact than a tightend they don’t seem to want to keep on the field. I think no matter what we will get a 3rd round pick for Goedert by way of comp pick. So I’m not itchy to move him. We need a high end tightend here to help the offense run. well if you switch to wanting to run more 1 tight end sets you keep goedert and get rid of ertz. Goedert can block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, ninjapirate said: well if you switch to wanting to run more 1 tight end sets you keep goedert and get rid of ertz. Goedert can block. The man wanted to trade Goedert, but sure you could swap Ertz in there if you like. Its what I would do too. However, I’d probably wait and do it next year. Though do you think they’d rip Ertz away from Carson before Goedert right now? Cause I can’t see them doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Just now, Kiltman said: The man wanted to trade Goedert, but sure you could swap Ertz in there if you like. Its what I would do too. However, I’d probably wait and do it next year. Though do you think they’d rip Ertz away from Carson before Goedert right now? Cause I can’t see them doing it. I think if goedert got as many targets as ertz does there would be no question that goedert is the better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: I don't know where you got the idea I love 2 TE sets or am making any argument about their effectiveness, I am simply pointing out that Doug has always used 2 TE sets, so neither Ertz or Dallas are expendable assets. They would need to be replaced. Personally, I would rather not have to do that. If Doug decides he does not want to employ x-2 personnel 1/3 to 1/2 of the time, then yes we should go ahead and trade for either Ertz or Dallas, but I am of the belief it's part of his philosophy and preference so it will not change since he was able to have success with it in 2017... although maybe 2 years of weak WR play, strong TE play, and average at best offense, will change that. That’s fine if the discussion is about what Doug wants. And then it’s all good. I think it’s dumb however. We’re a below average offense when showcasing two TEs. Small sample size I guess. And there’s the variable of having crud for receiver play but I think it’s pretty clear that one good TE and one good WR is more effective than 2 good TE and trash at WR. If Doug agrees or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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