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MrOaktown_56

Mock Offseason Thread:

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23 hours ago, NJ Raider said:

We really want four OTs and three QBs to go top ten and it's not all that unrealistic consider the top 11 teams. You can also throw okudah, jeudy, and probably an edge guy to the Jets in there. Not getting my hopes up for Simmons, but we could see brown there and mayock doesn't seem that enthusiastic about a receiver in the first, especially at 12. Could be smoke though. This forum would lose it, but I could see brown at 12 and a corner at 19 if we sign at least one startable lb and a speed wr. Not saying it's what I want, but I can see it. Defense would go from terrible to downright scary. I lgo back and forth everyday on what I want. Good thing I'm not making these decisions but I don't think Mayock will let us down regardless.

Its smoke.  There is no way you go after AB, watch it fail, see the lack of production from WRs, watch the O stumble through the last 6 or 7 weeks, and not have WR atop your wish list in the draft.  I would be sorrily disappointed in both Gruden and Mayock if WR isnt the FIRST position we address in the draft.  +/- Brown, Simmons, Young, Burrow falling.

Edited by Totty

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2 hours ago, Totty said:

Its smoke.  There is no way you go after AB, watch it fail, see the lack of production from WRs, watch the O stumble through the last 6 or 7 weeks, and not have WR atop your wish list in the draft.  I would be sorrily disappointed in both Gruden and Mayock if WR isnt the FIRST position we address in the draft.  +/- Brown, Simmons, Young, Burrow falling.

I agree. Mayock has been pretty clear that he wants to attack both the WR and LB positions. It could be a smokescreen but even a blind man could see that the Raiders lack in both positions. 

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5 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I agree. Mayock has been pretty clear that he wants to attack both the WR and LB positions. It could be a smokescreen but even a blind man could see that the Raiders lack in both positions. 

I feel like our FO was blind the last few years before Mayock came on.

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I feel like our FO was blind the last few years before Mayock came on.

I could never figure Reggie out. It was like he was trying to outsmart everyone else. He came from the Packers and Ted Thompson was always a guy who'd have a surprise pick in there. Riggie seemed to take that to far with some terrible reaches. Melinfonfu, Vanderdoes, Ward, Hayden, Watson just terrible picks at the time and we all tried to "trust" Reggie.

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21 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I could never figure Reggie out. It was like he was trying to outsmart everyone else. He came from the Packers and Ted Thompson was always a guy who'd have a surprise pick in there. Riggie seemed to take that to far with some terrible reaches. Melinfonfu, Vanderdoes, Ward, Hayden, Watson just terrible picks at the time and we all tried to "trust" Reggie.

@Rich7sena please see this and a few of the earlier responses. They sum up my thoughts exactly in regards to what we were discussing in the draft thread.

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1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I could never figure Reggie out. It was like he was trying to outsmart everyone else. He came from the Packers and Ted Thompson was always a guy who'd have a surprise pick in there. Riggie seemed to take that to far with some terrible reaches. Melinfonfu, Vanderdoes, Ward, Hayden, Watson just terrible picks at the time and we all tried to "trust" Reggie.

It was terrible. Even Mario I thought was a decent pick and he flamed out once he got injured.

Mayock seems not to outthink things so much. HIs "con" is that he doesn't like to take big "upside" risks, but that is a hidden pro IMO because it's much better to be nearly guaranteed 3 solid starters than to go boom-bust in 3 picks and likely miss at least 2. 

Plus Mayock has had a really good day 3 track record so far. I can't remember the last time we got anyone as good as Moreau in the mid rounds. Ditto on Crosby. Crosby is easily better than every DL reggie has drafted outside of Mack and Mack was a top 5 pick.

Even Mullen, though it's early, just seems to have "it". I like the mentality of these new players. They're not ok with mediocrity. It's why I think Mayock likes winning programs.

Which by the way Reggie barely touched. We barely got SEC talent during his tenure.

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1 hour ago, doctordeath said:

@Rich7sena please see this and a few of the earlier responses. They sum up my thoughts exactly in regards to what we were discussing in the draft thread.

I don't think Reggie was a pushover--especially in free agency. I just think he had blindspots evaluating and fell in love with certain types of players. I remember thinking how surprising Mario Edwards and Jihad Ward were. To his credit, Edwards looked pretty good before his injuries and both are, at least, still on rosters.

I even thought his last draft wasn't too bad.

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@MrOaktown_56 I can't quote you again... that's just weird.

But yes, I like how Mayock in year 1 didn't overthink it. Drafted kids from great programs with great coaches. You don't play for the Sabans, Sweeny's of the world without having a winning mindset and loving to play the game. That's what makes this past class so exciting.

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21 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I could never figure Reggie out. It was like he was trying to outsmart everyone else. He came from the Packers and Ted Thompson was always a guy who'd have a surprise pick in there. Riggie seemed to take that to far with some terrible reaches. Melinfonfu, Vanderdoes, Ward, Hayden, Watson just terrible picks at the time and we all tried to "trust" Reggie.

I think you're right especially with the bolded...

Lets look at his time with us..

2012 was a no picks/take out the trash and start the pain with salary cap hell.

Hayden was a WTF moment as I never heard of the guy because of his severe injury taking him off the radar. Meli, Ward and Watson made me think Al left some notes on 'how to draft' All had serious upside if they panned out, but there were better 'football players' still on the boards.

2014 it was either Mack or Watkins and Watkins got picked. If rumors of Carr were true then we got a steal waiting til the 2nd. Traded down and got a good Gurad in Jackson and a NT in Jelly. Mack and Carr quickly became leaders and we as a team looked like we had a good future with these two growing together...

2015 we actually had a choice between the best weapon for our new QB in Cooper or the best defensive player with Big Cat. QB growth was the choice and even added a TE (QB's best outlet usually) but injuries and Walford never lived up to expectations. Edwards was picked 2nd but most thought 3rd round player at DT we have him at DE. It worked out better than first expected but injuries took out the growth progression.

2016 Reggie reaches on a smaller/injured DB again. Joseph was a 1st if not injured that season but the injury should have slipped him a round and possibly two. I was yelling at the TV for Tunsil at Tackle for trading up but trading UP isn't Reggie's style I guess. Tunsil the week before video was considered the #1 overall pick possibility. Ward at DT didn't make sense with both Bama DT's Robinson and Reed still on the board...

2017 2016 seasons success makes Reggie take risks on upside. Conley has serious allegations that could have had him slip to 3rd but Reggie does his DD and feels he got a steal in late 1st. Melifonwu had been screaming up with his combine and has the size the previous draft safety lacks. 

2018 Gruden is in charge and Reggie's past risk taking has him on the hot seat with Gruden's 10 year/100 million contract. Miller doesn't fit RM's past with Tackles. Too athletic and not the 'hog' type. DT Hall seemed like a reach in the 2nd but Hurst in the 5th eases fans frustration. LOL

Reggie did good for what he walked into. It seemed like we needed 'another level' to go further and why Gruden was brought in. It's why so many want to move on from our current QB. As they feel 'another level' is needed but the other 'level' doesn't always pan out as expected or as fast as fans desire. With QB's like Jackson having an MVP season, with teams like 49ers going from 2nd overall pick to Super Bowl has fans thinking it's easy. Just do it. 49ers drafted Bosa after already spending  serious draft capital already on the dline. Didn't work out for Detroit with WR's but is currently working for 9ers. We didn't draft Derwin James because of the capital spent on Joseph and Meli. Yet the next year we do because it was a need and draft Abram. Mayock brings so much to the current way things are done with the Raiders. He doesn't take high pick 'risks' for upside. (Josh Allen) He goes solid players who will commit to the 'work' he knows Gruden will expect/need/want from his players. Hopefully he'll keep Gruden balanced with talent and keep moving us forward. 

 

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1 hour ago, G said:

2012 was a no picks/take out the trash and start the pain with salary cap hell.

Hayden was a WTF moment as I never heard of the guy because of his severe injury taking him off the radar. Meli, Ward and Watson made me think Al left some notes on 'how to draft' All had serious upside if they panned out, but there were better 'football players' still on the boards.

2012 starrted with a desperate trade back where they got little in return. Then drafted a player who had open heart surgery. They needed to hit on that pick and took a huge reach. 

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7 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

2012 starrted with a desperate trade back where they got little in return. Then drafted a player who had open heart surgery. They needed to hit on that pick and took a huge reach. 

Agreed. 

I also think that Dennis Allen (former DB coach) was high on him. 

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1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

2012 starrted with a desperate trade back where they got little in return. Then drafted a player who had open heart surgery. They needed to hit on that pick and took a huge reach. 

That was 2013 Draft. 2012 our first pick was in the 90's  (3rd comp) Tony Bergstrom. Seymour and Palmer trades drained our 2011, 2012 & 2013 drafts. That's why we did that desperate trade to recoup the lost 2nd for Palmer. Needed to restock the young players to build a team again. Cap hell with Seymour making 15 and Routt/Wimbley getting cut and adding dead cap to our already Javon Walker dead cap BS.  Al lived for the moment and that's what Reggie fixed. Started us on a better path forward even if he wasn't good enough. Most GM's aren't that good looking at their history. 

Hayden was a MASSIVE reach.

That draft sucked and staying put and drafting Lane Johnson probably would have been the best move looking back. 

Edited by G

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I think a potential trade down from 19 to either 21 or 22 is a possibility depending on which WR is sitting there. PHI at 21 and BUF at 22 have a need for a WR1 (Philly moreso) and they might want to move up to secure their guy.

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I've mentioned it a ton but I found it so refreshing seeing us trade up and down while getting good value. Reggie suuuuucked at this. 

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