Simmons, LB/S, Clemson

[Millenhater]

54 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

When I've watched Simmons, his tackling has been the biggest issue for me. He tackles low like a DB despite being a LB. He seems to go for the ankles and doesn't really wrap up. A lot of his int's seemed to be as a supporting player, coming in and cutting off the ball as opposed to making a play one-on-one. He's not going to be a consistent rusher at 238 lbs (and that might even be pushed up a bit). 

If you're playing 4-3 base, he's not a good fit in your base package; if you're playing 3-4 base, he's not a great fit in your base package; he's a fit as nickel LB/3rd safety. He's more of a sub-package guy IMO, which is fine if you're subbing him in to replace different guys on a consistent basis. 

When you look at Tracy Walker's snaps, he actually seems to be the guy that does what Simmons would do for us, playing all over the place. (254 snaps in the box; 177 snaps at slot corner; 331 snaps at Free Safety). 

He's a good player but I just don't see it happening with us. I could be completely wrong. 

I think he’s a unique prospect and his tackling is funny.  It’s like whatever position he’s playing is how he tackles.  When he’s a LB he seems to wrap up and drive through the player for the tackle.  But when he flys up to tackle a guy in the flat he dives a their legs like a player from the secondary.  I think this is a legit concern.  I think his best position is SS that also plays big nickel.  My other non scheme concern is he’s a bit leggy.  And for 238 seems a bit slender.  I’m just concerned if he can take the beating of the NFL and fear he could get a lot of lower leg injuries.  Having said that he’s still my number 3 player in the draft and would be OK if we take him.

[Superduperman]

I seem to hear a consensus that he could be incredible if placed in, and prepared for, the right role. I don't trust our coaching staff to do that, but then again, if they fail to use him correctly, the Lions will probably not be much better than last season, and they will be fired, and maybe different coaching in future years will help.

I wouldn't take him at 3, but at 5, 6, or 9, sure.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Yeah, he's definitely a player that, if you draft him, you must be committed to scheming with him in mind. If not, I don't think he's worth it early in the draft.

[Karnage84]

50 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

I seem to hear a consensus that he could be incredible if placed in, and prepared for, the right role. I don't trust our coaching staff to do that, but then again, if they fail to use him correctly, the Lions will probably not be much better than last season, and they will be fired, and maybe different coaching in future years will help.

I wouldn't take him at 3, but at 5, 6, or 9, sure.

That's assuming that the team would then bring in another defensive minded coach (unlikely) that would be sophisticated enough to know how to make a 238 lb (probably plays closer to 230 lbs) hybrid player that isn't a thumper and isn't going to be able to consistently win as an edge rusher work. A team with multiple 1sts might be able to afford to take the risk, like the Raiders, but he's too much of a wildcard for me. If you want to plug him in as a Tampa 2 Mike, then maybe it can work. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Yeah, I can definitely see Tampa 2 Mike.

[Millenhater]

1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, I can definitely see Tampa 2 Mike.

I was thinking that as well.  I even looked up Urlacher's measurables to see if they were close.  Urlacher was 20 lbs heavier.  Doesn't mean he can't thrive in the system its just crazy to think Urlacher was still that much bigger.

[Karnage84]

21 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, I can definitely see Tampa 2 Mike.

The problem that I have had, and this is just my own ignorance I'm sure, is that I can't find teams that run Tampa 2 in the league right now. I've looked all through Google to try and find teams that come from that system and I can't find a list. I don't know if teams just aren't running traditional schemes any more and going with hybrids off of different base schemes or if nobody runs Tampa 2 at all... but it has not been easy to find a T2 disciple. Leslie Frazier (DC for Bills) is only guy that I can find as a DC from the Dungy coaching tree. 

Joe Barry is LB Coach with the Rams and Rod Marinelli is the DL coach for the Raiders. Mike Tomlin is the only HC but the Steelers aren't coming up to get him. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

27 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

The problem that I have had, and this is just my own ignorance I'm sure, is that I can't find teams that run Tampa 2 in the league right now. I've looked all through Google to try and find teams that come from that system and I can't find a list. I don't know if teams just aren't running traditional schemes any more and going with hybrids off of different base schemes or if nobody runs Tampa 2 at all... but it has not been easy to find a T2 disciple. Leslie Frazier (DC for Bills) is only guy that I can find as a DC from the Dungy coaching tree. 

Joe Barry is LB Coach with the Rams and Rod Marinelli is the DL coach for the Raiders. Mike Tomlin is the only HC but the Steelers aren't coming up to get him. 

I'm not much of a football historian, but I feel, for some reason, that the emergence of the slot receiver and 3 WR sets killed the T2. Could be completely wrong here.