Offseason To-Do List: Coaching Staff

[SmittyBacall]

27 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

While the Bengals have to settle for scraps, there are still coaches available who are better than our incumbents. There's never a good reason to no upgrade when the chance presents itself. Fixing the coaching staff and front office is relatively simple compared with projecting college players to the pros. We've drafted poorly recently and given that we expect coaches to scout, we should be looking for better coaches. Otherwise it will be more of the same for the league's worst franchise. 

Mr. Negative strikes again.

[theJ]

17 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Who are these better coaches that are available and what assurances do we have that they will definitely come here if we offer them?  Is the chance actually presenting itself currently?

That's what i want to know.

I think there's still a chance they hire Callahan, if the role they have available interests him (it won't be as OL coach).

Duffner moves to LB coach.

I think pretty much everyone else has been retained at this point, yes?  So we're talking about hiring some quality control guys and what not.

Honestly this is all being blown out of proportion.  We don't know how good some of these coaches are, because the players they were coaching were junk.  It's not like they screwed up an all-star team.  They came in and blew up Marvin's core, dealt with a ton of injuries, and had bad luck in a lot of close games.  We have no idea if some of these coaches are good or not.  No idea.

Stability is good.  I like the approach.  Let's see what next season, with a new QB, brings.

[SmittyBacall]

2 hours ago, theJ said:

Honestly this is all being blown out of proportion.  We don't know how good some of these coaches are, because the players they were coaching were junk.  It's not like they screwed up an all-star team.  They came in and blew up Marvin's core, dealt with a ton of injuries, and had bad luck in a lot of close games.  We have no idea if some of these coaches are good or not.  No idea.

Well said. I think most of us feel this way. 

[sparky151]

4 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Who are these better coaches that are available and what assurances do we have that they will definitely come here if we offer them?  Is the chance actually presenting itself currently?

There's a long list of coaches available. Put it this way, if the Bengals fired Taylor,  would another team hire him as HC based on 2019? The answer is obviously no, he doesn't deserve and isn't qualified for a HC job in the NFL. He might get QB coach interviews but I doubt he'd even get OC interviews. We have objectively the worst team in the league and part of that is the worst coaching staff in the league. Not improving it when the chance comes is inexcusable, but not unexpected.

 

If it were up to me, I'd hire a defensive minded HC, hire Kris Richard as DC, Joe Brady as OC, keep Simmons, hire Bill Callahan for O-line and Art Briles for QB. Getting better coaches to come here is basically just a matter of writing bigger checks. That's the price you have to pay, along with meaningful participation in free agency when your draft and develop strategy flops.

[sparky151]

4 hours ago, theJ said:

That's what i want to know.

I think there's still a chance they hire Callahan, if the role they have available interests him (it won't be as OL coach).

Duffner moves to LB coach.

I think pretty much everyone else has been retained at this point, yes?  So we're talking about hiring some quality control guys and what not.

Honestly this is all being blown out of proportion.  We don't know how good some of these coaches are, because the players they were coaching were junk.  It's not like they screwed up an all-star team.  They came in and blew up Marvin's core, dealt with a ton of injuries, and had bad luck in a lot of close games.  We have no idea if some of these coaches are good or not.  No idea.

Stability is good.  I like the approach.  Let's see what next season, with a new QB, brings.

We have an excellent idea of how good the current coaches are. They are 2-14 good (or bad if you prefer). That's worse than the Dave Shula years. In the NFL you are what your record says, not whatever excuses you throw out.

[THE DUKE]

11 hours ago, sparky151 said:

We have an excellent idea of how good the current coaches are. They are 2-14 good (or bad if you prefer). That's worse than the Dave Shula years. In the NFL you are what your record says, not whatever excuses you throw out.

In Jimmy Johnson's first year as head coach he went 1-15.  4 years later he had just won back to back super bowls.  Judging a rookie coach by his first year record is not a good idea.  Belichik went 5-11 his first year in New England, and that was with a QB like Drew Bledsoe, who made pro bowls.

[theJ]

1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

In Jimmy Johnson's first year as head coach he went 1-15.  4 years later he had just won back to back super bowls.  Judging a rookie coach by his first year record is not a good idea.  Belichik went 5-11 his first year in New England, and that was with a QB like Drew Bledsoe, who made pro bowls.

Belichick was also awful in Cleveland.  1 winning season out of 5.

@sparky151 it's not as simple as wins and losses

[theJ]

17 hours ago, sparky151 said:

There's a long list of coaches available. Put it this way, if the Bengals fired Taylor,  would another team hire him as HC based on 2019? The answer is obviously no, he doesn't deserve and isn't qualified for a HC job in the NFL. He might get QB coach interviews but I doubt he'd even get OC interviews. We have objectively the worst team in the league and part of that is the worst coaching staff in the league. Not improving it when the chance comes is inexcusable, but not unexpected.

 

If it were up to me, I'd hire a defensive minded HC, hire Kris Richard as DC, Joe Brady as OC, keep Simmons, hire Bill Callahan for O-line and Art Briles for QB. Getting better coaches to come here is basically just a matter of writing bigger checks. That's the price you have to pay, along with meaningful participation in free agency when your draft and develop strategy flops.

I missed this before.

If the Bengals fired Taylor, he wouldn't be re-hired for 2020, no.  But neither would Belichick because all of the positions (short of Cleveland) have been filled.  And Bill is not working for Cleveland again, ha.

The rest of what you said, IMO, is nonsense.  Your opinion is too black and white and i can't connect it to the real world.  It's full of sample size issues, and there are lots of things that happen outside of a coaches control.  Short of Bill, every coach goes through bad seasons.  Doesn't make them a bad coach.

[sparky151]

6 hours ago, theJ said:

Belichick was also awful in Cleveland.  1 winning season out of 5.

@sparky151 it's not as simple as wins and losses

In Zac Taylor's case it really is. The guy who sent his team out to practice on a field with gravel on it. The guy who urged the team to trade up for Finley. 

 

Belichick and Johnson had past history of success, as Giants DC and U of Miami HC. Taylor's history is undistinguished. There's no reason to double down on stupid. Do you think Freddie Kitchens should have been kept on in Cleveland? Steve Wilks in Arizona?

[sparky151]

46 minutes ago, theJ said:

I missed this before.

If the Bengals fired Taylor, he wouldn't be re-hired for 2020, no.  But neither would Belichick because all of the positions (short of Cleveland) have been filled.  And Bill is not working for Cleveland again, ha.

The rest of what you said, IMO, is nonsense.  Your opinion is too black and white and i can't connect it to the real world.  It's full of sample size issues, and there are lots of things that happen outside of a coaches control.  Short of Bill, every coach goes through bad seasons.  Doesn't make them a bad coach.

 

Really? You just claimed that if Bill Belichick left NE, he couldn't get a coaching job for 2020? Want to try again?

 

Yes, I'm in favor of hiring a HC who has prior experience as a HC. I'll stipulate he must have won 3 or more games in a season at some point to make sure he's a clear upgrade over Taylor. The willingness on this board to make excuses for bad coaching is bizarre. Fans of every team, even the Bengals, should expect accountability. When you have the worst year in franchise history you get replaced. It's really not that hard. Other teams are hiring and firing still. AZ let 5 coaches go yesterday. 

[SmittyBacall]

40 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

The willingness on this board to make excuses for bad coaching is bizarre.

What's bizarre is how bitter you are in regards to the team. Why even follow the team? Why post here?

Taylor is the head coach. It doesn't matter how he got here or if the hire was deserved. He's here now. All we can do as fans is hope for the best. Things aren't as grim as you're making them out to be, and your "solutions" don't mesh with the reality that is the Bengals organization.

He's probably got three years to right the ship. So sit tight and get over it.

[sparky151]

Oh, I don't doubt the Bengals will be bad in 2020. It's nearly inevitable given the way the organization is run. 2019 saw the lowest attendance since PBS opened and 2020 will probably be lower. IMO the city or county should seize the team via eminent domain and resell it to someone more ambitious than Mike Brown. The league couldn't stop the taking but would have to approve the new owners. 

[theJ]

11 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Oh, I don't doubt the Bengals will be bad in 2020. It's nearly inevitable given the way the organization is run. 2019 saw the lowest attendance since PBS opened and 2020 will probably be lower. IMO the city or county should seize the team via eminent domain and resell it to someone more ambitious than Mike Brown. The league couldn't stop the taking but would have to approve the new owners. 

Attendance will be up because of Burrow

[theJ]

16 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Really? You just claimed that if Bill Belichick left NE, he couldn't get a coaching job for 2020? Want to try again?

You think a team is going to A) fire their coach in hopes Bill is interested or B) talk to Bill when they have a HC already on staff? You want to try again? He'd be waiting until next year. 

[INbengalfan]

17 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

Really? You just claimed that if Bill Belichick left NE, he couldn't get a coaching job for 2020? Want to try again?

 

Yes, I'm in favor of hiring a HC who has prior experience as a HC. I'll stipulate he must have won 3 or more games in a season at some point to make sure he's a clear upgrade over Taylor. The willingness on this board to make excuses for bad coaching is bizarre. Fans of every team, even the Bengals, should expect accountability. When you have the worst year in franchise history you get replaced. It's really not that hard. Other teams are hiring and firing still. AZ let 5 coaches go yesterday. 

Not to pile on, but three wins is the stipulation you need in order to hire a potential Taylor replacement?  So you would say Kitchens is a clear upgrade from taylor?  I posted this months back, but Jimmy Johnson (1989), Bill Walsh (1979) and Chuck Noll  (1969) all started their careers with one win. So using that logic, all three of them should have been fired.?  Never mind that we have known all along that Mike Brown is the biggest obstacle to team success.  Never mind that this team was turning over the roster, yet the players still play hard for him and several have been vocally supportive of him.  This over-reactive stance is exactly how you turn a team into the Cleveland Browns.  Because every time you fire them, you are back to square one.  Every single time. 

 

So you didn't like the record?  Me either, and I'm a paying customer.  You didn't like the Finley choice?  Okay, but now a guy is going to be fired over a failed rookie QB choice picked with a fourth and sixth rounder?  I honestly couldn't fathom working with someone with such little patience in my field of occupation.  I get why you feel that way, and that is your right.  Most on here just aren't as rash.  Cincy Jungle has quite a few people that feel that way, tho.  So I get it.