AZBearsFan Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Heinz D. said: Why is everybody obsessed with cutting Amukamara? Who replaces him, and how? Lunacy. I think Prince was very average this year before he got knicked. Once he got hurt he was a liability IMO. As of right now his $10M cap hit is 19th in the league. I think he can have a place in our 2020 defense, but not at that price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, ColGerBear said: Run a 4-3 Under Hicks - Goldman - Jones - Mack Kwiat - Trevathan - Smith Solid post but this threw me off. Switching to back to 4-3 is a terrible idea. Now I get where you're going with this, I think, (have Trevathan take the role of Urlacher, Smith as the new Briggs, Kwiat at SLB as the new Hunter, Goldman as the new Harris). But you don't mess with success. Right now, the last thing we should do is switch back to a 4-3. Not only would that not make sense since the defense is the only aspect keeping our heads above water but doing so would also require us to fire Pagano and find an equal replacement. Edited January 12, 2020 by JustAnotherFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Why is everybody obsessed with cutting Amukamara? Who replaces him, and how? Lunacy. Because while Prince has been a solid corner, he has always been an average player, at best, who has overachieved even in his best years when he was surrounded by talent. His best year was 2018 when we had a dominant pash rush and playing opposite of Fuller--who also had the best year of his career. The bottom line, he is a good example of a player who can easily be replaced when the rest of the defense plays up to his potential. Especially Fuller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 17 hours ago, beardown3231 said: Otherwise I don't mind the offseason, although I don't think they'll take a CB in the 2nd round. I think that's Toliver's job to lose. If it's Toliver's job to lose then we have a problem. This draft is deep at two positions that we need , OL & TE, so I would be surprised if they passed up those two positions in the 2nd round. But CB needs to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Why is everybody obsessed with cutting Amukamara? Who replaces him, and how? Lunacy. They need to trade him to a 4-3 team. I like Prince, but he isn't as good as his cost in 2020, his play fell off in 2019 and he is a year older. He might have another good year in him, but if it is me I always get rid of players a year early rather than a year late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: The bottom line, he is a good example of a player who can easily be replaced when the rest of the defense plays up to his potential. Especially Fuller. Can he though? I guess that's my point. I don't know, dude. Maybe if Tolliver can do it? (And maybe he can.) Some of the free agents are going to be even elder than Prince. Some might be vying for hefty paydays themselves--and I'm not sure Jimmie Ward or Eli Apple are light years better than Prince, anyway. I certainly wouldn't want to have to draft one high, then trust he'd work out as a starter. 10 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I think Prince was very average this year before he got knicked. Once he got hurt he was a liability IMO. As of right now his $10M cap hit is 19th in the league. I think he can have a place in our 2020 defense, but not at that price tag. Maybe he'd renegotiate. But if not, you're taking a big risk over a few million dollars in cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: If it's Toliver's job to lose then we have a problem. This draft is deep at two positions that we need , OL & TE, so I would be surprised if they passed up those two positions in the 2nd round. But CB needs to be addressed. I don't disagree. I think they like Toliver, that's all. I'd certainly bring in a vet + a 4th or 5th rounder, but either way I think Toliver is given every chance to win the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Maybe he'd renegotiate. But if not, you're taking a big risk over a few million dollars in cap space. We seem to have far different perceptions as to what Prince brings to the table. IMO, he’s an average starter. He's not a glaring liability, but he doesn’t generate takeaways at all, and the drop off from he to Toliver was essentially imperceptible. By the end of the season Toliver was rotating in for him with some regularity. Some of that may have been due to Prince being knicked (also a common issue with him) but I don’t think it’s even a small stretch to take that to mean that they have some comfort with Toliver too. That $8M cap savings to drop Prince can buy you a better corner or maybe 2 starters, and even stretch the $ further if they are comfortable with giving a shot to Toliver in 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: We seem to have far different perceptions as to what Prince brings to the table. IMO, he’s an average starter. He's not a glaring liability, but he doesn’t generate takeaways at all, and the drop off from he to Toliver was essentially imperceptible. By the end of the season Toliver was rotating in for him with some regularity. Some of that may have been due to Prince being knicked (also a common issue with him) but I don’t think it’s even a small stretch to take that to mean that they have some comfort with Toliver too. That $8M cap savings to drop Prince can buy you a better corner or maybe 2 starters, and even stretch the $ further if they are comfortable with giving a shot to Toliver in 2020. I like what I've seen from Tolliver. I admit i didn't re-watch as many games as I usually do this season, including those that featured Tolliver more prominently--which makes me hesitant to say he's clearly a solid substitute for Amukamara. If he truly is though, that's great. As I said, that would be the best solution, by far, if they were to move away from Prince. I don't think we're miles apart in our perceptions of Prince. I'm simply afraid of fixing something that isn't broken, when the underlying issue may end up being only $4-$5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 55 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: I like what I've seen from Tolliver. I admit i didn't re-watch as many games as I usually do this season, including those that featured Tolliver more prominently--which makes me hesitant to say he's clearly a solid substitute for Amukamara. If he truly is though, that's great. As I said, that would be the best solution, by far, if they were to move away from Prince. I don't think we're miles apart in our perceptions of Prince. I'm simply afraid of fixing something that isn't broken, when the underlying issue may end up being only $4-$5 million. I wouldn't use the word "only" when referring to $4-$5 million. That could get you an All Pro at another position. I don't think the drop off between Toliver and Amukamara is much, if any at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: I wouldn't use the word "only" when referring to $4-$5 million. That could get you an All Pro at another position. I don't think the drop off between Toliver and Amukamara is much, if any at all. If Tolliver is, in fact, an acceptable replacement, then the Bears should pull the trigger on that, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 22 hours ago, topwop1 said: Guys let's be real Pace is not giving up on Floyd. He will be back next year. He wouldn't have exercised his 5th year option if he didn't see him here in 2020. Best case is they renegotiate his salary for next season but they will not release him outright. This is about what we would do, not Pace. lol That being said I'm not releasing Floyd, someone would bite for at least a 4th. If he hit FA then we would get a conditional 3rd due to someone overpaying him, I'd take a pick that is 10 spots later a year earlier rather than wait for a slightly better pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, Sugashane said: This is about what we would do, not Pace. lol That being said I'm not releasing Floyd, someone would bite for at least a 4th. If he hit FA then we would get a conditional 3rd due to someone overpaying him, I'd take a pick that is 10 spots later a year earlier rather than wait for a slightly better pick. You won’t get anything for him. They are going to sign guys in few agency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: You won’t get anything for him. They are going to sign guys in few agency Then you trade him if you're sure you won't get a comp pick. We are assuming Pace will cut Amukamara, sign a few other guys, etc. Players have choices too and let's be real, they aren't lining up for a ride to Chicago. A failed HC/QB combo that leads an incompetent offense, an OL that at best has questionable toughness and talent, and a top tier defense. No offensive player wants to come here without getting overpaid because the scheme and QB blow. Defensive players don't want to field a top 5 defense and miss the playoffs. This isn't the John Fox Bears by any means, so I'm not being all doom and gloom. But until the QB and offense as a whole don't suck something fierce this isn't the top destination for anyone that isn't a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Then you trade him if you're sure you won't get a comp pick. We are assuming Pace will cut Amukamara, sign a few other guys, etc. Players have choices too and let's be real, they aren't lining up for a ride to Chicago. A failed HC/QB combo that leads an incompetent offense, an OL that at best has questionable toughness and talent, and a top tier defense. No offensive player wants to come here without getting overpaid because the scheme and QB blow. Defensive players don't want to field a top 5 defense and miss the playoffs. This isn't the John Fox Bears by any means, so I'm not being all doom and gloom. But until the QB and offense as a whole don't suck something fierce this isn't the top destination for anyone that isn't a QB. Just last year we all said how badly free agents would want to come here for the culture. Now, one year later, we're a doomed ship? I don't believe all that. I think this is still a prime spot for FA's and we'll see Pace continue to try to fill holes with mid-priced FA's. I don't think we'll blow all the budget on one or two players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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