Jakuvious Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Just read this: https://mbksports.com/news/an-overview-of-nfl-player-benefits/ The article states players are covered if they have 4 accrued seasons (active roster, IR, or PUP) for up to 5 years retirement. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems it ends after 5 years? Yeah, like I said, it covers any veteran for 5 years after they're released or retired. So it isn't lifelong coverage for retired players, if that's what you're asking. That would be difficult to manage financially, even for the NFL. But they're covered for the entirety of their NFL employment and 5 years after. So there is a health plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: The hard salary cap is good for the NFL. Perhaps they deserve more in relation to how much revenue the NFL brings in. The unfortunate side effect would be the owners refusing to take a loss, thus inflating the prices of other aspects. Unless they signed some sort of mega deal like the NBA. I'm also in favor of the NFL establishing some sort of health plan. But that's equally as far fetched. The players don't go for that, they want more money all the time, that is their chief point in negotiating. They should put in rules like all unspent cap upto 90% is redistributed on a per snap basis among the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 38 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Yeah, like I said, it covers any veteran for 5 years after they're released or retired. So it isn't lifelong coverage for retired players, if that's what you're asking. That would be difficult to manage financially, even for the NFL. But they're covered for the entirety of their NFL employment and 5 years after. So there is a health plan. I didn't say it, but my original comment was in reference to more down-the-line kind of things. The NFL will always point to football being a relatively lucrative career compared to others, and proper money management will lead to fewer financial concerns down the road, but I still think there should be something longer term. Players with a proper number of accrued seasons could potentially get some sort of plan that has a max value after a certain age. I don't think that would be incredibly difficult to manage, if the accrued seasons are maybe closer to 10 than 4, if the insurance strictly covers the players (not their families), and if the max value isn't insanely high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 20 hours ago, Iamcanadian said: I personally don't like the idea of a salary cap. Football players are grossly under paid compared to the revenue pro football generates. Nobody seems to care that the owners reap most of the revenue generated by the NFL while the players who are responsible for the revenue, get the leftovers, even though football is an incredibly tough sport where your career can end with an injury on any play, unlike most other sports. Players are lucky if they can still walk normally at the end of their careers. I once saw a piece on the Bus, the old RB for the Steelers which showed what it is like to play in the NFL. They filmed him for a week. 1) Sunday - play the game 2)Monday - He could not get out of bed and walk downstairs. 3) Ditto for Tuesday 4) Wednesday - could finally get downstairs by holding on to the banister. 5) Thursday - went to practice 6 Friday - felt OK to practice again 7) Saturday - Film room 8) Sunday - played another game 9) Monday - start all over again Their is a reason the saying goes 'Health, wealth and happiness. Without health what good is money?? Would you really want to live like this??? The NFL is very tricky about salaries, yes QB's generally make most of what their contract calls for, but the rest of the players usually only see a 1 to 3 years of what their contract guarantees, but the NFL puts out those false non guaranteed $$$'s to fool fans into thinking that players make a lot of money when in fact they make peanuts compared to other professional sports. Really, what does a QB get paid compared to a baseball star or an NBA star, peanuts when you compare the salaries, yet, not one of us would take a job where you are constantly hit hard basically on every other minute, risking serious injury that can follow you the rest of your life and stand for the fact that your salaries are limited by a salary cap. I wonder how many people would stand for a salary cap in their fields of work, it is totally unAmerican. So, why do NFL players put up with it, its really simple. The average career of a NFL player is around 5 years and their are thousands of college players just standing in line to take their jobs, so the average player who make up the majority of NFL rosters, really cannot afford to strike and the NFL knows it. Fans really are selfish just so they can be entertained, anybody who supports the NFL salary cap would have really enjoyed Roman times when Gladiators paid for the fans entertainment with their lives, because football comes pretty close to it. There are hundreds if not thousands of ex pro football players who suffer greatly from concussions and other serios physical ailments. Many, many ex players cannot walk without aids. It's a horror story which the NFL has tried to cover up for years. The NFL owners have done a truly remarkable job by including non guaranteed money in releasing salary $$$'s, to convince fans that their players make a lot of money, when in fact, they are the lowest paid professional athletes playing in the toughest sport by a mile. Sorry for the rant, but I get the feeling that a lot of young fans have little knowledge of what it is really like to be a professional football player??? Nobody seems to care that the owners get most of the money because you are describing every business in America. Every organization whether it's tech businesses, coal mines, transportation services, factory work, etc. Most of the money goes to the owner despite the fact that the business model is driven by the employees and if they all up and left, the business could not function. The NFL is no different. The owner at the end of the day assumes most of the risk on the business and therefore gets most of the reward. Players aren't investing their own personal incomes in the NFL. They are taking a check from them and doing whatever they need for their lives. So you aren't saying anything that isn't true of every company in the country. Being an NFL player is hardly the most dangerous job in the country either and they make FAR more than most employees for various companies, especially when you consider they average 5 years of employment, 15 years at best, and a constant backlog of replacement talent always exists. Again you say not one of would take a job where you are constantly hit hard basically every other minute if it was under a salary cap, yer I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this board would take an NFL QB salary and job in a heartbeat. 'Also you are fundamentally misunderstanding the economics of a salary cap. What would happen is that the top 5 richest teams would overbid for the top 5 best QB's. Then they would overload their teams with talent gobbling up all the top tier players so if you were a bottom poorest 15-32 team, the likelyhood of you having any top 5 talent at any position is gone. Which means the rest of them are basically giving up or playing moneyball and trying to get under written talent off cheap contracts that they constantly have to turn over. So all those teams would be paying those players much less than market rate, because they are already out of the game on building a team at market value. So a huge chunk of the league would be getting paid less than what they are now because of a lack of a salary cap, it would inevitably be limited to the super top tier guys that can earn a spot as a starter on the best teams. You might even see situations where top 10-15 QB's are taking more money to be a back up for a team like the Cowboys, then less money to be a starter on teams like the Packers. Because at that point why wouldn't the richest owners just hedge their bets and get a top tier back up, and take a strong QB out of the pool to be used against them. Having a cap protects medium and lower level players from getting undervalued, it allows all franchises to build on an even playing field where skill is more important than how much money you can spend and allows for a more competitive league. Here's a dirty little secret, unregulated free market doesn't guarantee competition. What it does is allow a Walmart to be created that can put everyone else out of business and then abuse the system when it does. It's not good for a league where you want to promote the idea that a team can go from zero to Super Bowl champion in about 5 years if they make all the correct moves and have the right infrastructure in place. I think you just don't have much knowledge of how the economy works. There's alot of business worth more and sometimes much more than the NFL, and most of their employee's make less than $100,000 a year, and that's with no salary cap. Walmart is worth more than the NFL, I bet 95% of it's employees would be lucky to make over $50,000 in a year if that. The salary cap in the NFL actually gives players a higher than average rate by which to negotiate on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The owners do not assume the most risk. What type of malarkey is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, Malik said: The owners do not assume the most risk. What type of malarkey is this? Who invests millions of dollars into the league? Who takes millions of dollars from the league? A player knowingly playing a physical sport so they can get a paycheck is not the same as an owner investing his personal wealth to pay those players, pay the management, buy the equipment, pay for stadium maintenance, etc, etc, etc. A player comes into the league, collects a paycheck, then leaves the league, like any other employee at their given occupation. They assume no risk. They work and make money like everyone else. If the New England Patriots went broke, Tom Brady just goes to another team and makes comparable money. Bob Kraft's business is done. It's not even statistically the most dangerous job to be an NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 hour ago, lancerman said: Who invests millions of dollars into the league? Who takes millions of dollars from the league? A player knowingly playing a physical sport so they can get a paycheck is not the same as an owner investing his personal wealth to pay those players, pay the management, buy the equipment, pay for stadium maintenance, etc, etc, etc. A player comes into the league, collects a paycheck, then leaves the league, like any other employee at their given occupation. They assume no risk. They work and make money like everyone else. If the New England Patriots went broke, Tom Brady just goes to another team and makes comparable money. Bob Kraft's business is done. It's not even statistically the most dangerous job to be an NFL player. The Kraft group is bigger than the New England Patriots. He isn't going broke if the Patriots go under. He could sell the land for the stadium alone for a hundred million dollars. Who invests millions into the league? Advertisers. Those are the people that keep the league afloat. Advertising. Kraft has zero to do with the advertising of the league. There is zero risk in owning an NFL team in 2017. The return on investment is huge even if you do absolutely nothing as the owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Malik said: The Kraft group is bigger than the New England Patriots. He isn't going broke if the Patriots go under. He could sell the land for the stadium alone for a hundred million dollars. Who invests millions into the league? Advertisers. Those are the people that keep the league afloat. Advertising. Kraft has zero to do with the advertising of the league. There is zero risk in owning an NFL team in 2017. The return on investment is huge even if you do absolutely nothing as the owner No advertisers pay for tv spots the same as any programming. They pay more for more watched programming. Actually most advertisers pay the network who pays the league a tv deal. The advertisers/networks/players can pull out at any time and leave with whatever assets they have left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Malik said: The Kraft group is bigger than the New England Patriots. He isn't going broke if the Patriots go under. He could sell the land for the stadium alone for a hundred million dollars. Who invests millions into the league? Advertisers. Those are the people that keep the league afloat. Advertising. Kraft has zero to do with the advertising of the league. There is zero risk in owning an NFL team in 2017. The return on investment is huge even if you do absolutely nothing as the owner Khan spent $770 million to become owner of the Jaguars. I guarantee he has not even come close to making a profit off of that investment. THey don't publish P&Ls for NFL teams, obviously, but Green Bay's is typically public due to their unique structure, and they made $40 million in profit in 2015. Given that the Jaguars certainly are not as profitable as the Green Bay Packers, it will probably take Khan 25+ years to make back what he spent to own an NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Jakuvious said: Khan spent $770 million to become owner of the Jaguars. I guarantee he has not even come close to making a profit off of that investment. THey don't publish P&Ls for NFL teams, obviously, but Green Bay's is typically public due to their unique structure, and they made $40 million in profit in 2015. Given that the Jaguars certainly are not as profitable as the Green Bay Packers, it will probably take Khan 25+ years to make back what he spent to own an NFL team. Pretty much every thing in the world that you invest hundreds of millions of dollars in will take a couple decades to see a return to that invested. Regardless of how well he performs as an owner he's pretty much guaranteed a profit as long as he owns a team because of the way the NFL shares profits among ownership. He doesn't need to be a savant to see a return. He just needed the capital and approval to get into the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Malik said: Pretty much every thing in the world that you invest hundreds of millions of dollars in will take a couple decades to see a return to that invested. Regardless of how well he performs as an owner he's pretty much guaranteed a profit as long as he owns a team because of the way the NFL shares profits among ownership. He doesn't need to be a savant to see a return. He just needed the capital and approval to get into the club. He might be dead or the NFL might not exist by the time he sees that return. Saying there's no risk just isn't true. A lot happens in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: He might be dead or the NFL might not exist by the time he sees that return. Saying there's no risk just isn't true. A lot happens in decades. The bigger issue is his idea that players or advertisers invest more than the owners. This is also taking for granted that Khan poured millions more into the Jaguars post buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: He might be dead or the NFL might not exist by the time he sees that return. Saying there's no risk just isn't true. A lot happens in decades. Well if the NFL folds he will always have his 8 billion dollars to fall back on. The risk is minimal considering the return in investment and actual day-to-day work they actually do to make the league successful. You all are vastly over valuing ownership in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Khan spent $770 million to become owner of the Jaguars. I guarantee he has not even come close to making a profit off of that investment. THey don't publish P&Ls for NFL teams, obviously, but Green Bay's is typically public due to their unique structure, and they made $40 million in profit in 2015. Given that the Jaguars certainly are not as profitable as the Green Bay Packers, it will probably take Khan 25+ years to make back what he spent to own an NFL team. That's not really how it works...A $40million annual profit on a $770million purchase is a 5.2% return on investment. GB had profits of $75 and $65 million in '16 and '17 as well, which would represent 9.7% and 8.4% returns. This does not capital gains either in increased real estate value, and increased value of the team either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Malik said: Well if the NFL folds he will always have his 8 billion dollars to fall back on. The risk is minimal considering the return in investment and actual day-to-day work they actually do to make the league successful. You all are vastly over valuing ownership in the NFL. If all the players left tomorrow they'd be replaced by college kids and CFL guys and in a couple of years most fans wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If they owners all left there wouldn't be a league. The players are not getting paid less than than most employees at other companies. If anything the lowest player still makes well over what the average employee at many companies that are worth more than the NFL makes. There's a fundamental lack of business economics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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