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2020 FF Consensus Mock Draft [Pick 4 - New York Giants]

Who will the Giants select?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. First Choice

    • QB Tua Tagovailoa
    • EDGE AJ Epenesa
    • DI Derrick Brown
    • WR Jerry Jeudy
    • CB Kristian Fulton
      0
    • OT Andrew Thomas
    • LB Isaiah Simmons
      0
    • OT Tristan Wirfs
    • WR CeeDee Lamb
      0
    • S Grant Delpit
      0
    • Other [Specify]
      0
  2. 2. Second Choice

    • QB Tua Tagovailoa
    • EDGE AJ Epenesa
    • DI Derrick Brown
    • WR Jerry Jeudy
    • CB Kristian Fulton
      0
    • OT Andrew Thomas
    • LB Isaiah Simmons
    • OT Tristan Wirfs
    • WR CeeDee Lamb
    • S Grant Delpit
    • Other [Specify]
      0
    • [[Leave Blank]]
      0
  3. 3. Third Choice

    • QB Tua Tagovailoa
    • EDGE AJ Epenesa
    • DI Derrick Brown
    • WR Jerry Jeudy
    • CB Kristian Fulton
      0
    • OT Andrew Thomas
    • LB Isaiah Simmons
    • OT Tristan Wirfs
    • WR CeeDee Lamb
    • S Grant Delpit
      0
    • Other [Specify]
    • [[Leave Blank]]


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If Thomas is there and they take someone else, hilariously stupid move. They need OL help about 500 times more than anything else, even though they have many holes.

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When Wirfs runs a sub 4.9 40, has a 225 bench of 30+ reps and shows off in the agility in the drills among many other things, few will still have Andrew Thomas ahead of him at this pick.  He already hand cleaned 450 and did it 4 times which is harder than a bench press arguably.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

When Wirfs runs a sub 4.9 40, has a 225 bench of 30+ reps and shows off in the agility in the drills among many other things, few will still have Andrew Thomas ahead of him at this pick.  He already hand cleaned 450 and did it 4 times which is harder than a bench press arguably.

 

If you need a RT, sure. If you need a LT? I don't see Wirfs being better.

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Just now, .Buzz said:

If you need a RT, sure. If you need a LT? I don't see Wirfs being better.

What makes Wirfs worse at LT than Andrew Thomas?  You think Wirfs cannot play RT or LT?  Why?

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3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

What makes Wirfs worse at LT than Andrew Thomas?  You think Wirfs cannot play RT or LT?  Why?

I think he can be a high end/elite RT. I think he has the qualities to switch sides but you never know how a guy will transition. It's not as easy as most people think (not that I assume you are that way, but I see people acting like players are interchangeable all along the OL).

Thomas looks the part of an elite LT prospect. 

So yes, to me it depends if have a need at one specific side or if it doesn't matter and you just want to go BPA.

 

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20 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I think he can be a high end/elite RT. I think he has the qualities to switch sides but you never know how a guy will transition. It's not as easy as most people think (not that I assume you are that way, but I see people acting like players are interchangeable all along the OL).

Thomas looks the part of an elite LT prospect. 

So yes, to me it depends if have a need at one specific side or if it doesn't matter and you just want to go BPA.

 

The Giants have Nate Solder who is the LT.  So if they take Andrew Thomas like you say then he would have to move to RT?  Regardless usually the best athlete plays LT and Wirfs is far more athletic than Andrew Thomas is I feel.  To not take Wirfs because one thinks he cannot transition to either tackle spot is ridiculous to me, especially for such a standout athlete.

Sure it is using a different hand and using different footwork but many backups in the NFL play either tackle position because they have to and the team needs them to do so.  If a backup can do it with reps, a starter can do it as well, sure some might really struggle with it but as long as you do not have a totally dominant hand and are agile and athletic it should not really be an issue.  

Also since so many teams run a ton out of shotgun, the LT and RT difference is not as much as it used to be when the QB was under center and literally it was their blind side .  From the shotgun one can see a lot more especially if they got some size as the QB.  Only negative about Wirfs is that he has only gotten to this elite level of play at OT this year, where Thomas has been pretty great for more than a few years.  In terms of upside though it is not even a question, Wirfs has a lot more upside because he is that much greatly of an athlete compared to Thomas.  Maybe Thomas will impress at the combine and show out but I assume Wirfs beats him physically across the board if almost every category.  

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Just now, Ozzy said:

The Giants have Nate Solder who is the LT.  So if they take Andrew Thomas like you say then he would have to move to RT?  Regardless usually the best athlete plays LT and Wirfs is far more athletic than Andrew Thomas is I feel.  To not take Wirfs because one thinks he cannot transition to either tackle spot is ridiculous to me, especially for such a standout athlete.

Sure it is using a different hand and using different footwork but many backups in the NFL play either tackle position because they have to and the team needs them to do so.  If a backup can do it with reps, a starter can do it as well, sure some might really struggle with it but as long as you do not have a totally dominant hand and are agile and athletic it should not really be an issue.  

Also since so many teams run a ton out of shotgun, the LT and RT difference is not as much as it used to be when the QB was under center and literally it was their blind side .  From the shotgun one can see a lot more especially if they got some size as the QB.  Only negative about Wirfs is that he has only gotten to this elite level of play at OT this year, where Thomas has been pretty great for more than a few years.  In terms of upside though it is not even a question, Wirfs has a lot more upside because he is that much greatly of an athlete compared to Thomas.  Maybe Thomas will impress at the combine and show out but I assume Wirfs beats him physically across the board if almost every category.  

I very much disagree with your assessment on today's NFL it not mattering much.

If I'm taking a player in the top 5-10, I'm ideally taking someone that has been playing that position/shown their that elite prospect at the position I'm picking them for. I'm not just taking a guy on measureables/athleticism and assuming that due to that they can transition to an entirely different position on the OL and things will be fine.

As far as Solder, as stated in this thread he's been garbage. He also said that if they do draft a LT he'd be fine moving positions to help the organization. Can't be much worse than how he's been playing apparently.

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25 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I very much disagree with your assessment on today's NFL it not mattering much.

If I'm taking a player in the top 5-10, I'm ideally taking someone that has been playing that position/shown their that elite prospect at the position I'm picking them for. I'm not just taking a guy on measureables/athleticism and assuming that due to that they can transition to an entirely different position on the OL and things will be fine.

As far as Solder, as stated in this thread he's been garbage. He also said that if they do draft a LT he'd be fine moving positions to help the organization. Can't be much worse than how he's been playing apparently.

Zach Martin, Marshal Yanda and Brandon Scherff?  So you do not draft them as a potential OG because all played OT in college?

 

No team in the NFL is going to pass on a top #1 or #2 tackle just because they played RT in college only.  If they need a tackle they take one regardless and coach them up.  In no way is Wirfs some albatross who can only play RT and could never play LT, the guy is a freaking great athlete I do not think it will be an issue if asked to do so whatsoever.

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14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Zach Martin, Marshal Yanda and Brandon Scherff?  So you do not draft them as a potential OG because all played OT in college?

 

No team in the NFL is going to pass on a top #1 or #2 tackle just because they played RT in college only.  If they need a tackle they take one regardless and coach them up.  In no way is Wirfs some albatross who can only play RT and could never play LT, the guy is a freaking great athlete I do not think it will be an issue if asked to do so whatsoever.

It's not like it doesn't work, but acting as if it's some seamless transition is inaccurate. Check out what most players say about position switches. You name some successes, but there's been plenty of times where it doesn't work out too.

“Some things translate over; some things you have to re-adjust your thinking,” Solder said of the positions. “It’s kind of like a right-handed person trying to write left-handed. You are not going to be as fluid and natural at it, but you can train yourself. You can do well and be successful.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/12/28/giants-nate-solder-open-to-position-change-in-2020/amp/

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Nice try Buzz but you're wasting your time. lol @ taking Wirfs over Thomas if you need that plug n play LT.  PS being a great player is about a lot more than just athleticism.

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24 minutes ago, bomont said:

Nice try Buzz but you're wasting your time. lol @ taking Wirfs over Thomas if you need that plug n play LT.  PS being a great player is about a lot more than just athleticism.

I think Wirfs could end up being special at LT too if a team decided to move him to that side, but there's definitely way more risk involved than a guy like Thomas who should be special as is without as much risk.

No reason to take the chance. Take Thomas and profit.

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Well after the Gettleman comments regarding running vs passing playoff teams you would think the team is going to go OT with their first pick. 
BUT Gettleman is playing sticks and rocks while others GM are playing checkers. It's all misdirection! Reverse psychology! Watch them go and grab Jeudy or Lamb and not spend a single pick on the OL in this draft. 

But honestly if should be pretty clear that if the board falls like that they should draft Thomas who IMO is the clear cut top Tackle in the draft. Wirfs could be an option as well, if the team prefer him for some reasons. 3rd choice would have to be either Simmons or... Jerry Jeudy
 

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15 hours ago, .Buzz said:

It's not like it doesn't work, but acting as if it's some seamless transition is inaccurate. Check out what most players say about position switches. You name some successes, but there's been plenty of times where it doesn't work out too.

“Some things translate over; some things you have to re-adjust your thinking,” Solder said of the positions. “It’s kind of like a right-handed person trying to write left-handed. You are not going to be as fluid and natural at it, but you can train yourself. You can do well and be successful.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/12/28/giants-nate-solder-open-to-position-change-in-2020/amp/

True but for any professional athlete, it is your job and it can be done.  I have taught myself to use a less dominant hand before hammering, it is hard sure for any OT and difficult but it can be done.  Personally I never looked at a tackle as only a RT or only a LT.  Sure sometimes they have a best fit as a player, but rarely do I think oh that team needs a tackle but they have a RT so only a LT is an option in the draft.  

Take Lane Johnson, who would have thought he would be a RT but he is on a team with Jason Peters so yeah he is a RT.  Or Ryan Ramczyk, most would have thought he would be a LT not a RT in the NFL but again look at who his teammate is and how athletic he is.  Wirfs to me is easily a more talented long term OT than Thomas, and like I originally said most will change their tune after the combine.

It is not like Wirfs has this awful tape either this year, on tape he arguably has out performed Andrew Thomas.  Physically Thomas is a little thin in the lower body honestly but has performed well for a long period of time without getting hurt so that is good.  

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