y*so*blu Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I'm about ready to move on from Mike Zimmer. He's had multiple chances to prove he's a true leader capable of motivating and inspiring the team, and I just don't believe he has it in him. I think he's set in his ways and won't be willing to update the offense until it's too late. I'd feel a lot better about him as our defensive coordinator at this point, though I doubt he would accept a demotion. If we promote from within then Kubiak is by far the best candidate for new HC (if it wouldn't endanger his health). If we bring in someone from outside, I'd try Eric Bienemy. Leave Rhodes on Planet Xa and prioritize drafting a new o-lineman, a new corner, and a new defensive tackle. Maybe pick up a better backup QB to motivate Cousins. We might still go all the way with him if we put all the right pieces around him, but I'm not convinced he is the answer in the long term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeT14 said: I know the off line is a big deal. How do you see to best fix it? Draft? Move Reiff inside and possibly trade for a LT? Would you move on from the guard(s)? Harris is probably my #1 priority. I don't plan on him getting away. I'd like to bring Sendejo back cheap if possible too. Waynes seems an interesting yes and no with you all. Ideally I would like to keep him, because I will try and offload Rhoades. I think at this point I will move on from Griffen too unfortunately. I have to make cuts somewhere. How is Weatherly? How about Wilson? Was he the starting WLB? I might try to extend Kirk. It could help with cap, and there aren't really other options out there for THIS season. 1. Offensive line - Consensus appears to be cut Reiff, move O'Neill and Kline to LT and LG, start Samia and Udoh at RG and RT, potentially draft IOL in top 3 rounds to compete for either guard spot. 2. Harris is our #1 priority too, but may cost too much. May have to draft replacement or bring in cheap FA 3. Consensus is that Waynes is gone, and preferably renegotiate Rhodes (if they can't cut him), try to resign Mackensie Alexander and ride Hughes and Hill on the outside, and draft competition 4. Will have to cut or renegotiate both Griffen and Linval. Weatherly is replaceable, but would prefer to bring him back on the cheap, if possible. 5. Wilson was not the starting WLB, that's Ben Gedeon. Wilson was basically Barr's backup. He'll be back though, as he's a RFA. 6. Extension for Kirk is likely to free up additional cap space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/13/2020 at 4:23 PM, vikingsrule said: If that’s how it plays out, I’d expect a rebuild. Zimmer, Spielman and Cousins gone. I've been thinking that 2020 will probably be Zim's last year. I don't see us getting better, and if that happens, the Wilfs will rightly want to move on from all three of them. I would love to see this offseason as one where we get rid of a lot of aging players and a lot of big contracts. It actually wouldn't be bad if we could just keep a few of our young, core players, trade the rest and acquire ammunition for the #1 QB in the 2021 draft. It probably won't happen, because if Spielman and Zimmer are here in 2020, they are going to be trying to win to save their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I need better understanding of why moving on from Zimmer makes sense to anyone? Is it mostly just "a big games" argument? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: It actually wouldn't be bad if we could just keep a few of our young, core players, trade the rest and acquire ammunition for the #1 QB in the 2021 draft. oooh, maybe we can get a Ryan Leaf! or sam Darnold or Mitch Trubuisky! how about Goff or Winston? Bortles and Manziel! Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young!! those are all qb's who went 1st or 2nd in their draft class. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Do we think Shamar Stephen is coming back? I know he’s under contract. But it just seems like he didn’t do much, and he hardly generates any pressure up the middle. I’d like to see us move on from him and give somebody else a chance. Although I tend to think he will be back because we don’t really have anyone else and he isnt too pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: It actually wouldn't be bad if we could just keep a few of our young, core players, trade the rest and acquire ammunition for the #1 QB in the 2021 draft. It probably won't happen, because if Spielman and Zimmer are here in 2020, they are going to be trying to win to save their jobs. My problem with doing this, is that this roster isn't in a state where blowing it up is sensible. I understand the growling pessimism surrounding this team, it's a sentiment I share in a lot of ways. But this team just went 11-6 in relevant games (excluding week 17), has a multitude of good to great players in their prime with several promising young players. That just isn't a roster you blow up, no matter how cynical you are of Cousins (I share that sentiment too). Their head coach has a winning percentage north of .600 and has consistently won more game than the talent of team dictates he should. I legitimately understand why fans want to just move on, but....it's just not a position rooted in sound decision making. Honestly it has a very Family Guy mystery box feel to it. Edited January 17, 2020 by Dolmonite26 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 12 hours ago, Dolmonite26 said: My problem with doing this, is that this roster isn't in a state where blowing it up is sensible. I understand the growling pessimism surrounding this team, it's a sentiment I share in a lot of ways. But this team just went 11-6 in relevant games (excluding week 17), has a multitude of good to great players in their prime with several promising young players. That just isn't a roster you blow up, no matter how cynical you are of Cousins (I share that sentiment too). Their head coach has a winning percentage north of .600 and has consistently won more game than the talent of team dictates he should. I legitimately understand why fans want to just move on, but....it's just not a position rooted in sound decision making. Honestly it has a very Family Guy mystery box feel to it. I beg to differ, kind of. With the cap situation the way it is, there isn't enough moolah to both resign our worthy free agents, AND improve those areas where deficiencies exist. While I would love to keep all our guys, the NFL in this era, is not really about teams keeping solid veteran players. Teams, for the most part, are built around young players on their first or cheaper second contracts. In fact, I foresee a time coming soon that third contracts will not be offered except for the most gifted free agents. I think it's time for the Vikings, unfortunately, to get on that bandwagon. The salary cap, as it exists now, rewards very few players and requires teams to turnover player rosters regularly. Now, I know someone will bring up the Patriots. They have been good for so long because of a superior coaching staff, an other worldly QB giving the team a salary discount, and the ability to cheat. Everyone around Brady turns over often. The Vikings don't have a superior coaching staff (they are good...but can't minimize talent deficiencies), or an other worldly QB willing to give the team a salary (at least not yet) discount (his abilities also don't minimize deficiencies along the offensive line) and if the Vikings are cheating, I don't see where the team is reaping any benefits. So, I think that the Vikings should (1) let FA's go (except Harris), trade some "stars" who could reap some significant draft capital (Theilen, Diggs, Smith); (2) Let Cousins walk after this season; (3) use the draft capital to rebuild the team from the inside out, i.e. offensive line and defensive line. Do I think this is likely? No. As someone pointed out up stream, Spielman, Cousins and Zimmer's best interests lie in trying to return to the playoffs in 2020. They have no interest in getting worse in order to get better. They may indeed return to the playoffs, but they will not be able to compete with the Packers, Seahawks, and 49'er's (and probably the Saints as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 12 hours ago, Dolmonite26 said: My problem with doing this, is that this roster isn't in a state where blowing it up is sensible. I understand the growling pessimism surrounding this team, it's a sentiment I share in a lot of ways. But this team just went 11-6 in relevant games (excluding week 17), has a multitude of good to great players in their prime with several promising young players. That just isn't a roster you blow up, no matter how cynical you are of Cousins (I share that sentiment too). Their head coach has a winning percentage north of .600 and has consistently won more game than the talent of team dictates he should. I legitimately understand why fans want to just move on, but....it's just not a position rooted in sound decision making. Honestly it has a very Family Guy mystery box feel to it. I don't know if this is true. The ability to win big games and underachieving are two of the biggest knocks against Zimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, Snake Plissken said: I don't know if this is true. The ability to win big games and underachieving are two of the biggest knocks against Zimmer. Considering some of the situations that he has been put in, I personally think he's done a pretty remarkable job. He certainly hasn't underachieved. Maybe he hasn't achieved enough yet, but he hasn't underachieved. The big game scenario is a fair criticism, but like I've said before, Andy Reid hasn't managed to win many big games either, although he did make it to the Super Bowl once. And Marty Schottenheimer was the king of inability to win big games. If that's the biggest knock against Zimmer in his 6 years then, that's not half bad. I, for one, still give him a little bit of a leash. This was really the first true season he's had with little drama or significant injuries. If that happens again and he still can't get the team to where it should be (within the next 3 years), then I'll be ready to move on. I'm not there yet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 For OC and DC have we interviewed anyone else besides Zimmer and Kubiak? Not seeing anything out there from Twitterworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Snake Plissken said: I don't know if this is true. The ability to win big games and underachieving are two of the biggest knocks against Zimmer. Apologies, but the "big games" argument needs to die. I assume "big games" are prime time game, playoff game and high leverage games for seeding which are mostly played against good teams. And wouldn't you know it? You are more likely to lose against good teams than bad teams. Football is highly variant, and loses happen as much a product of poor play and poor coaching as they do bad breaks. The Vikings have unfortunately been on the wrong side of math for several years, it happens...it's frustrating, but I'm gonna go ahead and trust the large six season sample size that tells me Zimmer can get a team a lot of wins and trust that that is enough to carry a great team through the playoffs. And he has done all of this with a huge talent deficiency at QB compared to his competitors. ... I honestly didn't know there was an underachieving narrative around Zimmer or how there can be one. 2014-2017 the team met or exceeded expectations, the first legitimately disappointing season imo was 2018....but well, we just overpaid for Kirk so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: For OC and DC have we interviewed anyone else besides Zimmer and Kubiak? Not seeing anything out there from Twitterworld. Considering Zimmer put the entire staff on vacation for 5 days, you're not going to hear anything. They're probably going to be regrouping back here on either Saturday or maybe next Monday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dolmonite26 said: Apologies, but the "big games" argument needs to die. ... I honestly didn't know there was an underachieving narrative around Zimmer or how there can be one. 2014-2017 the team met or exceeded expectations, the first legitimately disappointing season imo was 2018....but well, we just overpaid for Kirk so... Coaches are hired to win Super Bowls. There are 31 underachieving head coaches after every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Virginia Viking said: Coaches are hired to win Super Bowls. There are 31 underachieving head coaches after every season. This is incredibly disconnected from reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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