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gopherwrestler

Moving On To 2020/2021.

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After watching Cousins for last 2 seasons, I think he is an ok QB with limitations. My biggest problem with him are that he just isn't mobile at all and doesn't take too many risks in big games ( I won't fully blame him for this as this might also have to do with play calling). His movement in pocket also can be much better. It's just hard for the offense to score consistently well vs good defenses with a below par OLine and a QB who is neither mobile nor has good movement in pocket.

You can probably win with him but everything else around him needs to be really really good for that to happen..like having a top class OL for starters. I don't expect Vikings to suddenly have a top OL all of sudden in next 1-2 years. I hope we do move on from him after the current contract runs out. If Vikings end up extending him, then this will probably gonna be a treadmill team for a while, especially with Zimmer at helm.

Also, please fgs, do not offer a big contract for Cook. You are gonna shoot yourself in foot if you sign up Cook for a big contract. Cook has had injury issues, he has also struggled for a while... hasn't had a game with atleast 4 ypc in last 10 games. He can't do much if OLine can't block. If he is gonna hold out, that's fine...just continue with Mattison/Boone and maybe draft a RB in late rounds. Rather invest the money in improving that OLine which has been poor for almost 5 years now.

 

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1 hour ago, Illadelegend215 said:

No sir, that would not be beneficial to us at ALL. Letting Anthony Harris go sets us back a lot. This guy should be a pro bowler and all pro as well, 6 interceptions isn’t easy. He is a ball hawk that isn’t afraid to tackle, and Harrison Smith is still other worldly. Pay Anthony Harris tomorrow if need be, but we have the best safety duo in the entire nfl, no way I let him go. 

Exactly. Why let Harris walk just to keep guys like Joseph and Reiff around?

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2 minutes ago, upriser7 said:

After watching Cousins for last 2 seasons, I think he is an ok QB with limitations. My biggest problem with him are that he just isn't mobile at all and doesn't take too many risks in big games ( I won't fully blame him for this as this might also have to do with play calling). His movement in pocket also can be much better. It's just hard for the offense to score consistently well vs good defenses with a below par OLine and a QB who is neither mobile nor has good movement in pocket.

You can probably win with him but everything else around him needs to be really really good for that to happen..like having a top class OL for starters. I don't expect Vikings to suddenly have a top OL all of sudden in next 1-2 years. I hope we do move on from him after the current contract runs out. If Vikings end up extending him, then this will probably gonna be a treadmill team for a while, especially with Zimmer at helm.

Also, please fgs, do not offer a big contract for Cook. You are gonna shoot yourself in foot if you sign up Cook for a big contract. Cook has had injury issues, he has also struggled for a while... hasn't had a game with atleast 4 ypc in last 10 games. He can't do much if OLine can't block. If he is gonna hold out, that's fine...just continue with Mattison/Boone and maybe draft a RB in late rounds. Rather invest the money in improving that OLine which has been poor for almost 5 years now.

 

Cook wasn’t a difference maker down the stretch. Not sure why anyone would give him a lucrative deal at this point. He can’t stay healthy.

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2 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Cook wasn’t a difference maker down the stretch. Not sure why anyone would give him a lucrative deal at this point. He can’t stay healthy.

Due to some reason, Dalvin struggles have gone quite under the radar. Anyways, I saw this news yesterday.

Ian Rapoport reported this yesterday before the Niners game -

Giving a long term contract to Cook is gonna hurt this team 

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I actually agree with @NoDakViking, that the Vikings are not that far off. They don't have the feel of the Seahawks in 2011, but more like where the 49ers were last year, before Garoppolo got hurt.

12 hours ago, NoDakViking said:

I don't think we are that far off.   Need to add pass rushing threat at DT, new LG, add corner depth, and either a speedster or a size mismatch at WR.

This was a great season to build upon, Cousins and a lot of the new acquisitions since 2017 won their first playoff game and got the experience of playing a team like San Francisco in the Divisional Round. Zimmer proved himself, creating and calling strong defensive game plans against the Saints and 49ers. Zimmer will almost undoubtedly get a 2+ year extension this offseason.

They also look to have continuity for the first time in a long time, no starters got horrific injuries during the post season, with O'Neil being the only starter hurt throughout the playoffs with a concussion, so he should be good to go for Training Camp. Cook can get surgery and Hughes and Alexander can get healthy for their new and expanded roles next year.

The offensive and defensive lines have to improve. Ironically, Reiff didn't play awful yesterday, relative to his peers. Both guards seemed to struggle exceptionally, and were unable to help out Bradbury. To me, Elflein is the weak link that needs to be improved the most, but should obviously be retained for depth based off the current cap situation. And with only a couple more years on this window, I would be willing to move up to get a slam dunk prospect.

Kirk definitely earned a contract extension, and I would try to increase his pay, but do it in a team friendly way to reduce his cap hit in 2020. I don't pretend to be super well versed in contracts, but Over the Cap shows that extending Kirk could reduce his cap hit by up to $22M. Waynes will likely have to be let go, Rhodes could be restructured and kept for depth, otherwise he will likely need to be cut to free up $8.1M.

There is reason for optimsim in that Minnesota underperformed their expected W/L of 10.7-5.3, mostly due to resting their starters  in Week 17 and against Chicago, but they were also 2-4 in one score games this season. There is reason to believe they could improve vastly in that aspect next season, just due to regression to the mean.

However, and this is a big however, my concerns would be that Kirk had a career year this past season. I love both players and understand how integral they are to the Vikings success, but I doubt Kirk will manage to match what stands as his career high of 8.7 AY/A. His fumbles concerns me the most, with 10 total fumbles on the season (his career average) but only losing 3. He recovered 4 by himself. I would expect him to be the source of a couple more lost fumbles next year. The good news is that even last year he had similar TD (30 TDs in 2018 with a 5.0% vs 26 in 2019 with a 5.9%) and INT numbers (10 INTs on 1.7% of his throws in 2018 vs 6 INTs on 1.4% in 2019), so he is definitely capable of maintaining those stats, especially with this being the first time Kirk has had any continuity with his playcaller since 2015/2016 with Sean McVay.

The offense was also one of the most fortunate groups as a whole, tying 3 teams for the 2nd most fumbles in the NFL (30) but recovering the most of their own fumbles (18) out of any team in the league. The average NFL team fumbled 20.1 times in 2019 and lost 9.4 of those. My hope would be that the offense just simply fumbles less, but even if they reduced those numbers, I would still expect a similar number lost. Regressing to the mean on both fumbles and losses would have 2020 with about 20 total fumbles and 10 losses, which is an optimistic outlook.

The defense also was one of the best at recovering fumbles, which is not likely to be sustainable. The Vikings forced 19 fumbles, which was well above the league average of 13.8 for the 2019 season. They were also fortunate to recover 14 of those fumbles, well above the league average of 9.3. Of note, the Vikings opponents fumbled 22 total times (this includes unforced turnovers, like aborted snaps) which was much closer to the league average of 20.4. This means the average NFL team had their opponent just lose the ball on their own volition approximately 6.5 times, far less than the 3 the Vikings opponents squandered. So perhaps the Vikings will mitigate a few less forced TOs by just being lucky next year.

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if the Vikings took a step forward next year during the regular season. Seattle, Green Bay, New Orleans and San Francisco all vastly outperformed their expected W/L this past season, and I would expect to take a step back. New Orleans has even done so for the past 2 seasons. I wouldn't be shocked if San Francisco was the only one to make the playoffs next year, as they really only outperformed their expectation due to a 5-3 record in one score games, telling us what we all knew: they were lucky to beat Seattle in week 17. Of course there will be teams that will step up to take their places, and we all have our picks for those teams next season, the key is for the Vikings to improve their roster throughout the offseason, but I feel much more confident about where the chips will fall for this team in 2020. One or two blue chip additions in the trenches and this team can be in contention for a #1 seed next year.

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  • Well we have no money to spend so it's not going to be an active free agency unless we do some major purging of half a dozen or more players with most of those players being fan favorites and/or team leaders (Rudy, Griffen, etc.). There will be some painful decisions.
  • We gotta leave our 1976 offense/defense in 2019 and get with the modern NFL in 2020 but I don't see that happening with our current coaches and we're going to still try and win with a run first offense that fails and shuts down every time you can't run the ball.
  • The o-line was better this season but still a long ways to go. I mean congrats to the line for doing better in 2019 but EVERY TIME they went up against a dynamic defensive lineman or two, they reverted back to the 2016 line and looked absolutely lost.
  • Cornerbacks were dreadful and I don't see them getting any better without bringing in a free agent or higher draft pick. Mike Hughes isn't turning into the player we thought he would but he did have the knee injury so maybe that's an excuse as to why.
  • Need to get a dynamic inside pass rusher to compliment our DEs. Linval is regressing as well.
  • Linebackers are elite. I want to see Wilson instead of Gedion and get rid of Ben.
  • Receivers....gotta get a solid #3. I mean it's great having Diggs and Thielen as your top 2 WRs but it seems every season one or more are missing 3-4 games or playing hurt. Nothing against Bisi but I don't see him being that guy and he's far too much like Diggs/Thielen. That Hollins is a quick guy but awfully raw. I really want a huge burner guy with decent hands that can get his butt downfield and in a hurry.
  •  Kicking game is top notch finally. DO NOT MESS WITH IT.
  • Kirk is your QB in 2020 no matter what. Probably hold off on a re-signing until we see how he's doing half way through next season
  • Running backs are great. I may want to see a bit more Mattison early in the 2020 season to keep Dalvin fresher for later in the season. As for a new contract for Cook.....yeesh that's another hard decision coming up.
Edited by Vikes_Bolts1228

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My guess on who is gone this year:

Sean Mannion

Ameer Abdullah

Laquon Treadwell

Chad Beebe (53 man roster cut)

Pat Elflein

Brett Jones

Aviante Collins

Eddie Yarborough

Stephen Weatherly

Jaleel Johnson

Xavier Rhodes

Nate Meadors

I think we keep Griffen and Harris.

I really hope we don't give Cook a big contract but I have a bad feeling that's exactly what will happen.

 

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2 hours ago, upriser7 said:

After watching Cousins for last 2 seasons, I think he is an ok QB with limitations. My biggest problem with him are that he just isn't mobile at all and doesn't take too many risks in big games ( I won't fully blame him for this as this might also have to do with play calling). His movement in pocket also can be much better. It's just hard for the offense to score consistently well vs good defenses with a below par OLine and a QB who is neither mobile nor has good movement in pocket.

You can probably win with him but everything else around him needs to be really really good for that to happen..like having a top class OL for starters. I don't expect Vikings to suddenly have a top OL all of sudden in next 1-2 years. I hope we do move on from him after the current contract runs out. If Vikings end up extending him, then this will probably gonna be a treadmill team for a while, especially with Zimmer at helm.

Also, please fgs, do not offer a big contract for Cook. You are gonna shoot yourself in foot if you sign up Cook for a big contract. Cook has had injury issues, he has also struggled for a while... hasn't had a game with atleast 4 ypc in last 10 games. He can't do much if OLine can't block. If he is gonna hold out, that's fine...just continue with Mattison/Boone and maybe draft a RB in late rounds. Rather invest the money in improving that OLine which has been poor for almost 5 years now.

 

I'd guess he doesn't take risks because the HC doesn't take risks. This is an organizational philosophy under Zimmer. As long as he's here, that's how the team will play. Not to lose. Over and over, for six years and four different OCs.

I'd trade Cook if you can get a first or mid second. He isn't the same player in the 2nd half of the year, and Mattison is good enough.

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1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said:

I'd guess he doesn't take risks because the HC doesn't take risks. This is an organizational philosophy under Zimmer. As long as he's here, that's how the team will play. Not to lose. Over and over, for six years and four different OCs.

I'd trade Cook if you can get a first or mid second. He isn't the same player in the 2nd half of the year, and Mattison is good enough.

I think it's going to be 5 now. Wonder if they bring back Pat Shurmer?

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11 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

I think it's going to be 5 now. Wonder if they bring back Pat Shurmer?

You think stefanski is going to the Brown's?

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Just now, vikesfan89 said:

You think stefanski is going to the Brown's?

Already been announced that he is the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns

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1 minute ago, TENINCH said:

Already been announced that he is the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns

Then they already have their built in excuse! Convenient indeed. Just too much turnover at OC.......

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3 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

Then they already have their built in excuse! Convenient indeed. Just too much turnover at OC.......

That's why bringing back Shurmer would be a great idea. No worries about him being hired away again for a head coaching position.

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Yup. I’m all aboard the Shurmur train. He should be able to fit in with Kubiak and Co. if needed. 

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1 minute ago, TENINCH said:

That's why bringing back Shurmer would be a great idea. No worries about him being hired away again for a head coaching position.

Or if Kubiak would be willing to take the OC title. 

 

Screwed by two OCs in three years. You could tell Stefanski placed little time into this week's gameplan due to this hire. Run on first down, screen on second, pass on third. That wa every drive fromm the first quarter through the fourth. No wrinkles, no ajustments, no anything.

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