Moving On To 2020/2021.

[vikingsrule]

32 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said:

I wouldn't trade either, personally, but I've been wondering why everyone is hyped up about trading Diggs over Thielen as well.

End of the day, elite or near elite WRs are worth more than most are giving credit and the offese needs both imo

Agreed. There’s room for both players on the roster. I’d keep Diggs over Thielen if I had to get rid of one as I trust Diggs to be the better player going forward. Thielen’s season has me a bit concerned, he’s older and I hope injuries don’t start to be a concern for him. Ultimately, I’m trading Cook before one of the WRs if long term cash is my concern.

[Illadelegend215]

On 2/10/2020 at 9:38 AM, swede700 said:

I'm not sure where you got any of that from the comments I made.  I suggested nothing of the sort that Diggs was "stat happy."  The only thing I stated is that he can be a diva at inopportune times.  I also don't talk about Thielen because the discussion of Diggs has nothing to do with it.  They are different people and the discussion is about Diggs only.  Talk about taking comments out of context. 

But, if you must, I don't like it when Thielen does it either, because it is diva-esque.  But, Thielen never disappeared for 2 days...and that's the issue I have with Diggs.  Players who claim to want to be leaders don't do that.  

I'd love to keep him, but if someone has to be moved to make the team better as a whole, I'm moving him, because he makes a lot of money and with the way his contract is structured, he's one of the easier players to move and get something valuable in return.  That's it.  I'm not a Diggs-hater, so I don't appreciate the connotation that I am.  I am attempting to be objective about it when reviewing the entire team as a whole.  Diggs brings a lot of positives, but he brings negatives as well.  That's it, period.  

 

You alleged that diggs used to get angry when he did not clear 1k yards, then alleged that when diggs got to 1k, he was angry that he did not have the ball throw to him. That is a claim of someone disgruntled due to yards, which are stats. I stated that there is no time that diggs came out and complained he didn’t reach 1000 yards, which is a fact. Also, you claimed he has diva moments which could bring negativity towards our team. I countered with “diva” moments that thielen has displayed on multiple occasions, which is why he was bought up. Thielen was the example I used to counter your argument, that’s all, simple.

I feel as though moving a young receiver who is scratching his physical prime that is capable of doing nearly every job a receiver can at a near elite level (other than pass and run blocking) is just asinine. We have a receiver that can be a superstar in this league, why would we trade him? We could be set at receiver for another 6-7 years. 

[swede700]

5 minutes ago, Illadelegend215 said:

You alleged that diggs used to get angry when he did not clear 1k yards, then alleged that when diggs got to 1k, he was angry that he did not have the ball throw to him. That is a claim of someone disgruntled due to yards, which are stats. I stated that there is no time that diggs came out and complained he didn’t reach 1000 yards, which is a fact.

I never said he came out and literally complained, as he's been a cryptic fellow the entire time he's been here.  While I can't necessarily find the quote, it was sort of impression that I got from him that he felt he should have been thrown the ball more, especially when Teddy was the QB (in which case was probably true, because Teddy did miss him quite a lot).  It doesn't take an exact quote to understand what someone means, despite the words that come out of their mouth.  "There's truth to all rumors" was not the first instance of him saying something without saying anything.  And it won't probably be the last.  With that said, I will again reiterate that I don't want him to get traded, but I don't think they'd go in the tank if he did get traded.  

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

Diggs is an odd dude but he's not on the level of some other WR's where he's a true cancer or budding cancer to the locker room. Everything we've heard is that he's respected and is a team leader in the locker room

So do I trade him for being odd and his tweets? No. Do I trade him if a team comes forward and says "Here's a first rounder and maybe a little change." Quite possibly. Do I trade him if his attitude goes completely in the tank and his antics get old? If the offer is right and my hand is forced....probably.

I just don't think we have the WR corps without Diggs. Thielen is coming off an injury plagued age 29 season. Bisi Johnson was OK but nothing made me say "We may have something here....." Beebe and Treadwell ain't it.

So Diggs would absolutely have to be replaced some how because you can't go into 2020 with Adam Thielen and Bisi Johnson as WR's 1 & 2. Thielen would be absolutely smothered every game and then you'd have to rely on Bisi and Beebe to do something. Then if Thielen goes down with a boo-boo.....no thanks.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Vikes_Bolts1228

[Dolmonite26]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-hitting-sweet-spot-cap-allocation-offense

Quote

Wide receivers generally provide the most WAR of any offensive unit outside of quarterback 

interesting article from PFF that also had the above statement. Obviously it requires more investigation but pff seem to believe (with evidence) that receivers contribute quite a bit to winning, relative to other positions. Which is kind of wild to me

lots of incomplete information atm, but thought I'd share anyway, and the article is interesting if you're in to that kind of stuff.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Dolmonite26

[Purplexing]

Keep both Diggs and Theilen.  Keep Cook because he is not only a runner, but a 3rd receiver.   Fill the WR crew with inexpensive youngsters (translation: 'yutes' for odd posters who are big Pesci fans) who may develop into effective 4th and 5th receivers who can step up when Diggs, Theilen, or Cook are injured.

Brzezinski must find a way to extend Cousins that saves cap space to re-sign one of the vital DBs and hope to retain 2 other top DBs for a functional secondary.  It's time for Brzezinski to step up with his calculator and spreadsheets to save cap space so as to retain vets familiar with the Vikings O and D systems who will lead their units much more effectively than rookies drafted to replace 'expensive' vets.

Why extend Cousins?  It would be risky to try to replace him with a rookie; e.g. TJax, Ponder, TB, .... and he has proven himself to be a top 10, perhaps top 5 QB, when he is not playing for the dysfunctional Redskins.   A dozen or so QBs are drafted each year by NFL teams and only a few perform well enough to become starters, with only one per year* becoming a top ten QB over their career.  

Youth is wasted on the Young - Oscar Wilde.   A Yute movement is wasted cap space if no leaders are among them - Purplexing

* - assume a 10 year career average for a starting NFL QB.  Every year, for ten years, a rookie QB is drafted who will eventually replace a retiring top 10 QB.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Purplexing
changed 'fit' to 'resign' (one of the vital DBs)

[MikeT14]

How would you all feel about this trade in TCMD to shore up your WR core a little better and improve them some? I don't have to give up any picks, I am just moving down in rounds.

Vikings get 4.22.125, 5.19.159, 7.26.244, Marquez Valdez-Scantling

Packers get 4.12.115, 4.35.138, 7.2.220

Value difference of about the 5th round 18 overall or so, but don't actually lose any picks.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Illadelegend215 said:

You alleged that diggs used to get angry when he did not clear 1k yards, then alleged that when diggs got to 1k, he was angry that he did not have the ball throw to him. That is a claim of someone disgruntled due to yards, which are stats. I stated that there is no time that diggs came out and complained he didn’t reach 1000 yards, which is a fact. Also, you claimed he has diva moments which could bring negativity towards our team. I countered with “diva” moments that thielen has displayed on multiple occasions, which is why he was bought up. Thielen was the example I used to counter your argument, that’s all, simple.

I feel as though moving a young receiver who is scratching his physical prime that is capable of doing nearly every job a receiver can at a near elite level (other than pass and run blocking) is just asinine. We have a receiver that can be a superstar in this league, why would we trade him? We could be set at receiver for another 6-7 years. 

Again, I don't think anyone here has advocated trading Diggs.  However, if the cap situation continues to be tight or even worse in 2021, there may be no other choice but to trade Diggs for draft picks, because of his value.  I suspect, if that were the case, a number of other very talented players would be traded or released.  Because of the seriousness of the cap situation the Vikings are one slip on a banana peel away from a complete rebuild.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

How would you all feel about this trade in TCMD to shore up your WR core a little better and improve them some? I don't have to give up any picks, I am just moving down in rounds.

Vikings get 4.22.125, 5.19.159, 7.26.244, Marquez Valdez-Scantling

Packers get 4.12.115, 4.35.138, 7.2.220

Value difference of about the 5th round 18 overall or so, but don't actually lose any picks.

I'm not sure that MVS offers the Vikings anything more than Bisi Johnson is already providing. So, I would say no.

[Uncle Buck]

59 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

How would you all feel about this trade in TCMD to shore up your WR core a little better and improve them some? I don't have to give up any picks, I am just moving down in rounds.

Vikings get 4.22.125, 5.19.159, 7.26.244, Marquez Valdez-Scantling

Packers get 4.12.115, 4.35.138, 7.2.220

Value difference of about the 5th round 18 overall or so, but don't actually lose any picks.

I wouldn't want to do anything to help a division rival.  In addition to that, we could probably find a guy like MVS somewhere in the later rounds of the draft.

[SemperFeist]

Given Kubiak’s comments yesterday, I’d say a Cousins contract extension is imminent. 

I’m not opposed to an extension per se, but;

A.) There has to be an out after a year or 2. They can’t tie themselves to him with another fully guaranteed contract.

B.) Extension yes, raise no. I’m not interested in giving Cousins more than his current $28M AAV salary. 

C.) Still need to draft a QB to groom behind Cousins. Won’t likely (nor should it) be a 1st rounder, but I’d like to see them grad someone in rounds 3 or 4 at the latest. However, given Kubiak’s history, this is unlikely. 

[swede700]

14 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Given Kubiak’s comments yesterday, I’d say a Cousins contract extension is imminent. 

I’m not opposed to an extension per se, but;

A.) There has to be an out after a year or 2. They can’t tie themselves to him with another fully guaranteed contract.

B.) Extension yes, raise no. I’m not interested in giving Cousins more than his current $28M AAV salary. 

C.) Still need to draft a QB to groom behind Cousins. Won’t likely (nor should it) be a 1st rounder, but I’d like to see them grad someone in rounds 3 or 4 at the latest. However, given Kubiak’s history, this is unlikely. 

It may be unlikely, but it was Rick Smith that was in charge of the draft, not Kubiak.  Who's to say that that wasn't Smith's call.  And even so, he was the head coach of the Broncos when Paxton Lynch was taken in the 1st round (and we know that was Elway's call) and Siemian was taken in the 7th round the year before.  I've been advocating for them to take a QB in either the 2nd or 3rd this year, because the late round/UDFA QBs haven't worked.  I'd even be okay with a 4th rounder, but even then, that's a stretch for me, because they generally don't have a lot of upside if they're going that late.  

As far as your other points, I'm certainly hoping that it's not guaranteed either, since he got that already, but if it's not guaranteed, I'm certainly okay with giving him a gradual raise, since he's earned that.  However, I do agree that there should be an out after 2 years.  

Edited February 12, 2020 by swede700

[vikingsrule]

13 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Given Kubiak’s comments yesterday, I’d say a Cousins contract extension is imminent. 

I’m not opposed to an extension per se, but;

A.) There has to be an out after a year or 2. They can’t tie themselves to him with another fully guaranteed contract.

B.) Extension yes, raise no. I’m not interested in giving Cousins more than his current $28M AAV salary. 

C.) Still need to draft a QB to groom behind Cousins. Won’t likely (nor should it) be a 1st rounder, but I’d like to see them grad someone in rounds 3 or 4 at the latest. However, given Kubiak’s history, this is unlikely. 

I don’t get why Cousins would be in a rush to do anything based on these demands. He’s either getting a raise and less guarantees or another 2-3 year guarantee at a lower salary. Cousins would be better off forcing the Vikes to do something after his contract is up if your two goals are not to give him a raise and not commit. Feel like both parties should just play out the deal and talk new contract next year. I know Spielman typically doesn’t give new deals during the season but that may ultimately be the best course of action. Outside of the Saints win, Cousins record was terrible against .500 or better teams, not that it’s all on him.

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I don’t get why Cousins would be in a rush to do anything based on these demands. He’s either getting a raise and less guarantees or another 2-3 year guarantee at a lower salary. Cousins would be better off forcing the Vikes to do something after his contract is up if your two goals are not to give him a raise and not commit. Feel like both parties should just play out the deal and talk new contract next year. I know Spielman typically doesn’t give new deals during the season but that may ultimately be the best course of action. Outside of the Saints win, Cousins record was terrible against .500 or better teams, not that it’s all on him.

Certainly Cousins wouldn't be in a rush, but unlike Washington, at least he'd know the organization he's playing for has enough trust in him to consider extending him.  And with a signing bonus along with the extension, he'd get a lot of money right now, which is good for his pocketbook.  

[Uncle Buck]

Where it makes sense to give Cousins an extension is from the perspective of Spielman and Zimmer.  If Cousins isn't extended and we also have a bad season, it would be pretty easy for the fans to just say "let's clean house and start over".  By extending Cousins, the GM and the Head Coach would be creating a greater chance of continuity of their own regimes.