jsthomp2007 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Well...I thought Sags was going to grow along side Lock until he became the HC. But, I guess you only make this move to get Shurmer whose offenses have always been top notch. So I'm not totally upset, but liked Scags a lot...had a great story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I think you have to separate the capability of the scheme in general (which at its best is extremely hard to defend) from the ability of the play caller. Scheme + talent looked promising but they clearly didn’t trust him as a play caller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 55 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Shurmur's a fantastic OC hire. He was an absolute disaster as a HC, but his OC work in MIN and O work overall has been impressive. It's definitely an upgrade in experience, and he's shown the ability to be innovative as an OC. As we all witnessed, Case Keenum is not a good QB - yet Shurmur (and a very soft schedule) coaxed a top 10 QB season out of him. His hire shouldn't be seen as a negative at all, far from it. The thing is, Scangarello definitely got scapegoated for the O's problems - we lacked talent, plain and simple, and our QB play pre-Lock was truly horrific. It's not his fault Elway foisted a broken Joe Flacco on the O. Scangarello's year in DEN should not be seen as a negative in his CV in future years. I think he'll land on his feet, and eventually get another shot as OC, and as long as it's not a DEN 2019 situation, he'll succeed. He didn't really deserve to be fired. Shurmur on OC talent alone is an upgrade. Scangarello wasn't the problem in DEN this year. The 2 statements can both be true. Absolutely agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Scangarello got scapegoated. No two ways about it. The offense looked better once Flacco was no longer playing. That said, I am not going to act as if Scangarello is some kind of mastermind. The offense still finished bottom 4 in nearly every category. Improvement was there, but I do not blame Fangio necessarily for wanting an upgrade. That said, this is very much a Fangio move, and if it doesn't work out, he should absolutely be held accountable for it. Shurmur is a good OC who has worked well with young QBs. I doubt anyone will be knocking down the door for him given the last two HC stints failed, so this could lead to some semblance of continuity. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I’ll remember Scangs for his awesome 4th down play call against KC and his unwillingness to stop green lighting Fant run plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I am guessing the Broncos are also pairing Lock with Shurmer because of Shurmer's willingness to go vertical and Lock's cannon for an arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I thought Scangerello showed some encouraging improvement as the year progressed. However, there is no denying Shurmur is the better coach/play caller just based on his track record. I said this throughout the season and now even more so with the addition of Shurmur, but Denver has one of the best coaching staffs in football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 In a vacuum, this was a WTF move. Scangs was far from perfect, but I was looking forward to see the offense next season. I was worried about this move. With the Shurmur hire, it makes more sense, though Scangs didn't deserve his fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 hours ago, broncos67 said: Scangarello got scapegoated. No two ways about it. The offense looked better once Flacco was no longer playing. That said, I am not going to act as if Scangarello is some kind of mastermind. The offense still finished bottom 4 in nearly every category. Improvement was there, but I do not blame Fangio necessarily for wanting an upgrade. That said, this is very much a Fangio move, and if it doesn't work out, he should absolutely be held accountable for it. Shurmur is a good OC who has worked well with young QBs. I doubt anyone will be knocking down the door for him given the last two HC stints failed, so this could lead to some semblance of continuity. For better or worse, you have to respect Fangio for acting on his conviction. And if it works out, he owns that 100 percent - unlike most decisions in the FO, this had to be coming from Fangio alone. The timing really supports the idea that Scangarello was going to return, it's only that Shurmur's firing and opening hire window led to this decision - and only this decision. If Shurmur succeeds, Fangio deserves full credit. If Shurmur struggles and Scangarello turns out to be the ascending OC, then Fangio owns the heat. This one of the few FO moves that I pretty much won't credit/discredit Elway for, it's full-on Fangio's call here. If it were otherwise, we'd have seen this move 2 weeks ago, when the hiring cycle began. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 The only risk I see in replacing Scang with Shurmer is what if Scang blows us and becomes a mastermind somewhere else like withe Raiders, or f***ck the Chiefs? What Bienemy leaves for a HC job and Scang takes over there and has it in for us?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said: The only risk I see in replacing Scang with Shurmer is what if Scang blows us and becomes a mastermind somewhere else like withe Raiders, or f***ck the Chiefs? What Bienemy leaves for a HC job and Scang takes over there and has it in for us?? I'm not worried about that. I hope the Chiefs do hire Scangarello, force that system on their personnel, and have him call plays. That would be a gift, even if he's competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe_is_the_best said: In a vacuum, this was a WTF move. Scangs was far from perfect, but I was looking forward to see the offense next season. I was worried about this move. With the Shurmur hire, it makes more sense, though Scangs didn't deserve his fate. I might be reading too much into this buuuuut..... The coaching staff currently is largely old school veterans. Fangio, Donatell, Munchak and even Elway as GM. Scangaerllo was the only 'young newbie'. I think this whole staff of veterans want to win now and don't know how long of a window they all have, especially Elway with the potential new ownership changes. I think a lot of this hire is because they didn't want to waste anymore time trying to win and can no longer go with unproven guys. It feels like we want to give our best chance to turn this around and win in the short term because nobody knows how much longer they will either be working in the NFL or employed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: I might be reading too much into this buuuuut..... The coaching staff currently is largely old school veterans. Fangio, Donatell, Munchak and even Elway as GM. Scangaerllo was the only 'young newbie'. I think this whole staff of veterans want to win now and don't know how long of a window they all have, especially Elway with the potential new ownership changes. I think a lot of this hire is because they didn't want to waste anymore time trying to win and can no longer go with unproven guys. It feels like we want to give our best chance to turn this around and win in the short term because nobody knows how much longer they will either be working in the NFL or employed Really good points! The coaching staff now are all veterans. The Broncos have a player roster that is one of, if not, the youngest in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Mike Shula as QB coach makes a lot of sense if he doesn’t get an OC gig. You’d have so much combined high level coaching experience between Shurmur, Shula and Munchak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, broncos67 said: Scangarello got scapegoated. No two ways about it. The offense looked better once Flacco was no longer playing. That said, I am not going to act as if Scangarello is some kind of mastermind. The offense still finished bottom 4 in nearly every category. Improvement was there, but I do not blame Fangio necessarily for wanting an upgrade. That said, this is very much a Fangio move, and if it doesn't work out, he should absolutely be held accountable for it. Shurmur is a good OC who has worked well with young QBs. I doubt anyone will be knocking down the door for him given the last two HC stints failed, so this could lead to some semblance of continuity. I totally agree with all of this. I've waited a few days to comment because in truth, I was really, really, really p*ssed off when this news broke. I thought Rich got better as the year went on, especially when you consider the QB changes, the constant OL shuffling, starting WR traded and our lack of experience from the rest of our pass catchers. Sure, getting Shurmur is exciting but as Ben eluded to above - if this doesn't work out, Vic absolutely has to be held accountable. It's interesting that several Bronco beat writers (Klis, Jhabvala, Renck) all mentioned within 2 hours of the news breaking that the Broncos thought Coach Rich struggled after the 15 play script disappeared. Some of you may remember that this was a criticism I had of our Offense early in the year; we had the worst 2nd half Offense in the entire NFL at the half way stage of the season. I felt like we improved on this as the year went on, in particular when Lock came in, but clearly our Brain Trust disagreed. With hindsight, it's clear there was a personality clash between Vic and Rich. The former made a fair few subtle jabs at our playcalling, including Vic overruling calls at times. That said, we did improve with a competent QB at the helm so this change definitely puts a target on Vic's back. Hope he's ready for that. The good news is that Shurmur has been so bad in both of his HC gigs that I doubt he's getting another shot for (at the very least) 3 years. That should hopefully give us some much needed continuity (what we thought we had a week ago ....) Edited January 14, 2020 by lomaxgrUK 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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