Broncos fire OC Rich Scangarello

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

14 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

Further changes: 

 

 

This was expected. As it helps if the OC and the QB coach are already on the same page. Then he doesn’t have to coach up his QB coach on what he wants prior to coaching up the players. I fully expect Mike Shula to be naked QB coach in the next day or 2.

Edited January 15, 2020 by broncos_fan _from _uk

[BroncoBruin]

Shula has to be the favorite if he doesn’t get an OC job. DeFilippo could be an option as well. 

[The Helicopter]

42 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

This was expected. As it helps if the OC and the QB coach are already on the same page. Then he doesn’t have to coach up his QB coach on what he wants prior to coaching up the players. I fully expect Mike Shula to be naked QB coach in the next day or 2.

What a terrible image...you get ban!

[germ-x]

14 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Agreed - I don’t think it’s realistic to get a top tier guy but a Higgins / Dorsett type I’m all for.  To let the rookies develop at their own pace.  
 

To be clear though it’s not an either / or approach.  Elway & co.  should hit WR in the draft early and in FA.  

Yeah.  I like Dorsett.

I doubt it happens, but I’d have no issue giving Robby Anderson 3-4 years at $11-12M/year.  Top 10 deep threat in the league, walks in day 1 as the teams #2 WR and adds a whole other dimension to the team vertically.  I also don’t think it prevents Denver going WR in rounds 1 or 2 if WR is BPA, but it gives them the flexibility not too depending on who is on the board.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

6 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

What a terrible image...you get ban!

Haha swipe text for the unintentional comedy!

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, BroncoSojia said:

Further changes: 

 

 

Of course you get rid of him. Drew Lock didn't improve even a little bit from the day he was drafted.

[champ11]

2 hours ago, French Fan said:

Dallas Cowboys invested so much in Jason GARRETT during almost 10 years for what ? 

3 division titles / record 0-3 Post Season / 3 times 10+ W / 4 season 8-8 / 1 losing season / 85w 68 L/ 

The cowboys are the perfect exemple why 1 team doesn't want to invest in o,ne pers. The OC/HC need to succeed in 2 years . The 1st yea to make some splash and the 2nd must materialize what the OC/HC sees the things

Fair point ..... I think there is merit in letting a guy go early when you didn't see what you needed to see. It's hard to know either way but I think we all saw improvement by the end of the year

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Of course you get rid of him. Drew Lock didn't improve even a little bit from the day he was drafted.

 

Ya, not a big fan of these moves. QB's need continuity, especially young ones. Lock has likely been working with McCartney extensively this entire year and we are dropping him now because a 'big name' like Shula is available. I just dont like the optics or likely result. 

These are move you make when you transition from a Fox 'culture precedent' to a Kubiak 'time to superb owl'. We are nowhere near that moment. 

I expect surprising, short term over payments this off-season. And not for internal players. Elway is showing that he is still Elway. WC or bust baby. 

[AKRNA]

14 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, not a big fan of these moves. QB's need continuity, especially young ones. Lock has likely been working with McCartney extensively this entire year and we are dropping him now because a 'big name' like Shula is available. I just dont like the optics or likely result. 

These are move you make when you transition from a Fox 'culture precedent' to a Kubiak 'time to superb owl'. We are nowhere near that moment. 

I expect surprising, short term over payments this off-season. And not for internal players. Elway is showing that he is still Elway. WC or bust baby. 

Elway blew this one big time. When Fangio walked in his office and said" Hey John, my old buddy Pat just got fired. He's always wanted to live in Denver. How 'bout I fire the kid and bring in Pat and any other friends he's got." 

Elway: "Can we keep Munchak?"  

It was a perfect time to just say no.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

Let me preface this by reiterating that I think we should have given Scangs another year, but understand how given the overall poor performance, the not seeing eye to eye on play calling aggressiveness, and the apparent ill fit of personalities between Scangs and Vic why they took advantage of Shurmur becoming available as a chance to move on and upgrade.

 When that move happened TC getting the axe was almost a foregone conclusion. Unless the OC was an OL coach they typically don’t understand or mess with the black box that is the OL (outside of minor preferences in the utilization of zone vs power as all teams use both a fair amount now) so Munch And Kuper were safe. The technique and routes of WRs and TEs are pretty much the same regardless of scheme (it’s the language and frequency of given concepts that change) so Azz and Herdman are likely safe. 

QB and RB technique, language, and assignments can change quite a bit from scheme to scheme however so TC and Modkins may be let go and coaches that Shurmur has worked with previously brought in to decrease the amount of time he has to spend coaching his coaches before the players can be coached. 

[Broncofan]

42 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Let me preface this by reiterating that I think we should have given Scangs another year, but understand how given the overall poor performance, the not seeing eye to eye on play calling aggressiveness, and the apparent ill fit of personalities between Scangs and Vic why they took advantage of Shurmur becoming available as a chance to move on and upgrade.

 When that move happened TC getting the axe was almost a foregone conclusion. Unless the OC was an OL coach they typically don’t understand or mess with the black box that is the OL (outside of minor preferences in the utilization of zone vs power as all teams use both a fair amount now) so Munch And Kuper were safe. The technique and routes of WRs and TEs are pretty much the same regardless of scheme (it’s the language and frequency of given concepts that change) so Azz and Herdman are likely safe. 

QB and RB technique, language, and assignments can change quite a bit from scheme to scheme however so TC and Modkins may be let go and coaches that Shurmur has worked with previously brought in to decrease the amount of time he has to spend coaching his coaches before the players can be coached. 

Yeah, once you go with a different OC who operates with a different system, you're not likely keeping the QBC.   The big take-home message is that neither Scangarello or McCartney will get dinged long-term for 2019; I think both will end up landing on their feet.   

You guys all know I've been a pretty harsh critic of Elway's win-now moves when it's been pretty clear we're not in a win-now position, dating back to the end of 2016.   On this one, it's hard for me to go after Elway - for better or worse, this is Fangio making a big call based on what he wants.    I have a hard time pointing the finger at Elway.  If Elway wanted this change, it would have happened right after the season.    Now, if Fangio flops, that's ultimately on Elway - but this decision is Elway letting Fangio make the call on his staff.      It won't absolve Elway if Fangio proves he's not the answer - but it's really hard to ding Elway here.   If Elway believes in Fangio as the HC, he has to let Fangio make this call.     The timing screams that Fangio was ready to stick with Scangarello, but felt Shurmur was an opportunity he couldn't pass up.   

Edited January 15, 2020 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, once you go with a different OC who operates with a different system, you're not likely keeping the QBC.   The big take-home message is that neither Scangarello or McCartney will get dinged long-term for 2019; I think both will end up landing on their feet.   

You guys all know I've been a pretty harsh critic of Elway's win-now moves when it's been pretty clear we're not in a win-now position, dating back to the end of 2016.   On this one, it's hard for me to go after Elway - for better or worse, this is Fangio making a big call based on what he wants.    I have a hard time pointing the finger at Elway.  If Elway wanted this change, it would have happened right after the season.    Now, if Fangio flops, that's ultimately on Elway - but this decision is Elway letting Fangio make the call on his staff.      It won't absolve Elway if Fangio proves he's not the answer - but it's really hard to ding Elway here.   If Elway believes in Fangio as the HC, he has to let Fangio make this call.     The timing screams that Fangio was ready to stick with Scangarello, but felt Shurmur was an opportunity he couldn't pass up.   

I can’t agree on the last point - that the plan was to stick with Scags until Shurmur suddenly became available. Everyone and their brother knew Shurmur was getting the axe in NY. It was an unexpected as Jason Garrett’s firing. 

What I see is an abandonment of the plan that was laid out going all the way back to last year. Fangio is operating in a win-now fashion just as badly as Elway/Ellis have been since 2016.  

The Broncos are dysfunctional. At this point, I don’t put anything past them. Nothing, no matter how foolish or short-sighted, will surprise me.

Whether this latest change works out or not is anyone’s guess. Taken in a vacuum, I can see the merits of Shurmur. But, given the past 4-5 years of this thing being a total spit show, why on Earth should any of us think Vic, who is part of the problem, and Elway and Ellis, who are even bigger problems, are making anything other than a short-sighted decision? 

I’ll wait to reserve final judgment until, say, Halloween. No amount of PR spin coming from Smyth and his buddies and mouthpieces in the Denver media are going to make me feel any better or any worse about this move until then. 

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I can’t agree on the last point - that the plan was to stick with Scags until Shurmur suddenly became available. Everyone and their brother knew Shurmur was getting the axe in NY. It was an unexpected as Jason Garrett’s firing. 

What I see is an abandonment of the plan that was laid out going all the way back to last year. Fangio is operating in a win-now fashion just as badly as Elway/Ellis have been since 2016.  

The Broncos are dysfunctional. At this point, I don’t put anything past them. Nothing, no matter how foolish or short-sighted, will surprise me.

Whether this latest change works out or not is anyone’s guess. Taken in a vacuum, I can see the merits of Shurmur. But, given the past 4-5 years of this thing being a total spit show, why on Earth should any of us think Vic, who is part of the problem, and Elway and Ellis, who are even bigger problems, are making anything other than a short-sighted decision? 

I’ll wait to reserve final judgment until, say, Halloween. No amount of PR spin coming from Smyth and his buddies and mouthpieces in the Denver media are going to make me feel any better or any worse about this move until then. 

Just because everyone knew Shurmur was getting fired doesn’t mean Fangio knew he was headed here.    It’s only until Fangio knew he could get Shurmur that he decided to let Scangarelli go.   That’s what I conclude from the timing.   
 

If Fangio was dead set on replacing Scangarello he would not have waited 2 weeks into the hiring cycle.    The timing screams that only particular guys would have led to the change.   If Elway wanted this it was definitely not waiting until now.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by Broncofan

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, not a big fan of these moves. QB's need continuity, especially young ones. Lock has likely been working with McCartney extensively this entire year and we are dropping him now because a 'big name' like Shula is available. I just dont like the optics or likely result. 

These are move you make when you transition from a Fox 'culture precedent' to a Kubiak 'time to superb owl'. We are nowhere near that moment. 

I expect surprising, short term over payments this off-season. And not for internal players. Elway is showing that he is still Elway. WC or bust baby. 

This move is not a surprise - Scangs brought McCarthy with him from SF - Shurmur is going to change the offence and it makes sense to have a QB coach who knows the offence being run by the OC.

It is clear that there was friction between Fangio and Scangs - and when Shurmur became available then moves were always going to be on the cards. It helps if the entire coaching staff are on the same page.

And - one of the reasons why I, as an Irish guy, likes the NFL is because a team can turn things around very quickly because of FA, the draft and the salary cap. A couple of good FA signings - a good draft with 2-3 big contributors - and the Broncos can make the play-offs - once you are there anything can happen. The Broncos have another 3 years with Lock on a cheap contract - if he proves to be the QBOTF then that is a clear window.

[AnAngryAmerican]

40 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Just because everyone knew Shurmur was getting fired doesn’t mean Fangio knew he was headed here.    It’s only until Fangio knew he could get Shurmur that he decided to let Scangarelli go.   That’s what I conclude from the timing.   
 

If Fangio was dead set on replacing Scangarello he would not have waited 2 weeks into the hiring cycle.    The timing screams that only particular guys would have led to the change.   If Elway wanted this it was definitely not waiting until now.  

BS. Fangio was the one that hired him. Did anyone think, that after being a total boob and falling flat on his face in NY that Shurmur was going to get a bunch of looks to go run another organization into the ground? He already worked in Cleveland so they’re out. 

It’s been plainly clear for a long time Shurmur was going to be available. This didn’t happen overnight. It wasn’t like “holy crap those fools in NYC let go of a Hall of Fame coach for some stupid reason, let’s move heaven and earth to get him here!”

Vic the incompetent wanted a yes-man as OC. Smyth/Klis/Nikki/et al helped them spin it as a positive but fact is Vic needed a lackey, not someone who called him on being a stuck in his ways, who was an “old school” jerk who “treats everyone like (crap).” 

Elway and Ellis let him have that, over their preferred choice of an OC from Shanahan tree. Basically, they’ve given Vic enough rope to hang himself; if Shurmur falls on his face, again, they have justification for firing Vic. That’s as forward looking as this franchise gets. 

This time next year, we will be looking for a new HC, mark my words. Let’s just hope that search is being conducted under a new owner with a brand new FO.