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Pastor Dillon

2020 Stupidity Virus Outbreak

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I must add ontop of this, I watch a lot of sports, hockey, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc, etc. I'm active in a lot of these communities too, when there are teams people laugh at for having bad coaching/bad ownership (e.g. Browns, Senators, Man United, Redskins, Knicks, etc etc etc list is endless) I am always thankful that Houston sports has recovered with the Astros going on WS runs, Rockets choking but remaining a top tier talent in the NBA and the Texans sure we have BoB but at least we have a solid organization, Cal McNair just nuked that. He is worse than his dad. I hope the next person seeking to buy an NFL team wants to buy us, let's just hope we don't fall on another Halsem.

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We were up 24-0 on the eventual champs... and blew it.

And then promoted our coach.

What an utter mess.

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rockets:  consistent organization.  one of the top 5-10 organizations the past 10 years

astros:  despite the cheating a perennial playoff team whose window is still open.

UH basketball:  tourney team

UH football: on the right track with holgorsen

 

meanwhile this crappy organization gets worse by the minute. 

 

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4 hours ago, Texansfan713 said:

rockets:  consistent organization.  one of the top 5-10 organizations the past 10 years

Disagree wholeheartedly on this. They're in the same "good but not good enough" tier that the Texans are in, IMO. Their biggest accomplishment ...is taking GSW to seven. Getting high seedings means nothing if you can't do anything with it.

This D'Antoni/Harden package should have made an NBA Finals the last two seasons, but both underperformed - losing to a Durant-less GSW in six isn't quite the same as blowing a 24 point lead, but it's akin to losing 21-7 to the Colts in your own house. 

The Rockets are in a similar boat as the Texans. D'Antoni should be under a similar microscope BoB is under. 

4 hours ago, Texansfan713 said:

astros:  despite the cheating a perennial playoff team whose window is still open.

I'd argue that the WS lost last season shows the "cheating" is overblown. Per the investigation, the sign stealing ended in 2018, so that run to Washington is as legit as you can have. 

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to be fair,  golden st's teams during that run was one of the best in nba history.  if they played any other team and the rockets would be nba champs. rockets are a consistently good team over the years.  

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12 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

to be fair,  golden st's teams during that run was one of the best in nba history.  

And the Patriots aren't one of the best in NFL history? And that GSW team was shorthanded a few times - Durant missed the series Klay Thompson missed games in the WCF two years' before...

Last year without Durant? The only Texans equivalent would be if they lost to Connor Cook and the Raiders. You don't lose an elimination game against Klay Thompson and Steph Curry who had zero points in the first half and get to call yourself a good team.

Better than the worst, sure. They're not Sacramento, much like how the Texans aren't Cincinnati. But don't put them on a pedestal when they don't have trophies either. (Those Clutch City trophies are old enough to legally drink, so don't go there).

12 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

if they played any other team and the rockets would be nba champs.

No, they would not - because there's very little guarentee that the Rockets could beat Toronto, especially given that the Raptors DID beat GSW.

12 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

rockets are a consistently good team over the years.  

They've accomplished exactly what the Texans have accomplished in the BoB era - a bunch of playoff berths and a few division titles, that's it. It's in the West, which is the more dominant conference, so that's a step up. But, they have underperformed just as much as the Texans when the game mattered most. 

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Admittedly - I'm not a James Harden fan. I just don't like his style of basketball, and I'm not a big fan of Mike D'Antoni either.

So, I'm biased. I can admit that.

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its more parity in the nfl than nba..  nba is a star driven league.  no team was going to beat a team that has 3 top 10 players.  rockets by far was the closest to doing that. 

the rockets would have played the cavs in the finals if they beat gs game 7 that year.  they would have easily beaten cleveland.

to your last point, its a difference. division titles in the nba is irrelevant now. rockets at least has shown they are willing to do whatever it takes to win a title (harden trade, dwight signing, cp3 sign and trade and westbrook trade) even if it doesnt pan out.  the texans are focused solely on only caring about making money from the fans.  rockets have been one of the best franchises in the past decade if i had to list them in no order, definitely top 10 if not 5.

 

Edited by Texansfan713

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27 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

its more parity in the nfl than nba..  nba is a star driven league.  no team was going to beat a team that has 3 top 10 players.  rockets by far was the closest to doing that. 

The Cavs and Raptors beat that team. So...

27 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

the rockets would have played the cavs in the finals if they beat gs game 7 that year.  they would have easily beaten cleveland.

I firmly disagree with this. You talk about star driven, and that Cavs team had the best player in the world in LeBron James. It would have been a drawn out series, but Mike D'Antoni teams have a very demonstrated knack for not showing up in these moments. Whether it be Steve Nash or James Harden, it's not working with D'Antoni - he's an Andy Reid who had two MVPs and zero titles.

27 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

to your last point, its a difference. division titles in the nba is irrelevant now. rockets at least has shown they are willing to do whatever it takes to win a title (harden trade, dwight signing, cp3 sign and trade and westbrook trade) even if it doesnt pan out. 

Hmm. Trading for Tunsil/Stills, trading for Conley, signing Lamar Miller, signing Brock Osweiler (definition of "it doesn't pan out") signing Tyrann Mathieu, signing Bradley Roby, signing Tashaun Gipson, trading up for Deshaun Watson...

Outside of firing O'Brien (which everyone wants) what more can be done to bolster this team? They mortgaged the future for an elite LT, brought in a guy to hopefully turn into the #1 CB, trolled the waiver for a #2 guy in VHIII - seriously, what more did you want?

It's not the players, it's the coaching. Same could be said about the Rockets.

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it took a suspension and a kyrie gw shot for them to beat the warriors...same with the raptors.  the 2017-18 rockets might go down as one of the best teams to NOT win a title. it sucks that the warriors so happened to be in the way of that. 

that cavs team that went to the finals that year werent even good.  they would have been like the 5th-6th best team in the west that year. they were 4th in the east that year even with LeBron. 

also the texans dont have nowhere near as good of a GM as morey is.  IDC if O'Brien is the de facto GM. I trust Morey as GM better than Rick Smith, Brian Gaine and O'Brien combined.  The reason they had to make the Tunsil/Stills trade is because they were desperate after failing plenty of times to fix the OL that O'Brien ruined since he because HC here.  Draft picks are more important in the NFL than the NBA so O'Brien is trying to go "all-in" while mortgaging the future. 

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54 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

also the texans dont have nowhere near as good of a GM as morey is.  IDC if O'Brien is the de facto GM. I trust Morey as GM better than Rick Smith, Brian Gaine and O'Brien combined.  The reason they had to make the Tunsil/Stills trade is because they were desperate after failing plenty of times to fix the OL that O'Brien ruined since he because HC here.  Draft picks are more important in the NFL than the NBA so O'Brien is trying to go "all-in" while mortgaging the future. 

I don't disagree with anything here, but I think you're missing what I am saying:

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

It's not the players, it's the coaching. Same could be said about the Rockets.

Morey is a great GM, but takes some bad risks that don't pay out (Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson, Jeremy Lin, etc). The Texans GMs aren't good, but that has more to do with what they don't do - not resigning Brandon Brooks, Ben Jones, AJ Bouye, trading away Jadevion Clowney for very little. The "core" talent they bring in works out for the most part - Hopkins, Watson, Watt, Cunningham, Reid, Mercilius, McKinney. Sure, Tunsil was a desperation move - but what would you call moves such as bringing in Carmelo Anthony? The team was desperate to find that #3 guy to go with Harden and CP3, and that failed pretty miserably. Desperation runs pretty deep on both sides. 

No matter who the GM is for the Rockets, they're capped at the WCF, because Mike D'Antoni cannot win in the WCF. (His time in Phoenix, Los Angeles and now in Houston sort of proves it).

No matter who the GM is for the Texans, they're capped at the Divisional Round, because Bill O'Brien cannot win in the Divisional Round. (I think that was validated, and I don't think it's a question).

If you put D'Antoni and O'Brien under the same microscope, you get the same result - they get talent handed to them and they find creative ways to lose with that talent. Neither can get to a champion level, despite having a few pieces there that should be able to get into that position. 

That's why I can't take the Rockets as anything more than the Texans at current. You can, but you're ignoring significant flaws with the Rockets.

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31 minutes ago, mse326 said:

What forum am I in?

The Houston forum? ;)

I get it, I get it. I think we're done anyways.

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17 hours ago, ET80 said:

I don't disagree with anything here, but I think you're missing what I am saying:

Morey is a great GM, but takes some bad risks that don't pay out (Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson, Jeremy Lin, etc). The Texans GMs aren't good, but that has more to do with what they don't do - not resigning Brandon Brooks, Ben Jones, AJ Bouye, trading away Jadevion Clowney for very little. The "core" talent they bring in works out for the most part - Hopkins, Watson, Watt, Cunningham, Reid, Mercilius, McKinney. Sure, Tunsil was a desperation move - but what would you call moves such as bringing in Carmelo Anthony? The team was desperate to find that #3 guy to go with Harden and CP3, and that failed pretty miserably. Desperation runs pretty deep on both sides. 

No matter who the GM is for the Rockets, they're capped at the WCF, because Mike D'Antoni cannot win in the WCF. (His time in Phoenix, Los Angeles and now in Houston sort of proves it).

No matter who the GM is for the Texans, they're capped at the Divisional Round, because Bill O'Brien cannot win in the Divisional Round. (I think that was validated, and I don't think it's a question).

If you put D'Antoni and O'Brien under the same microscope, you get the same result - they get talent handed to them and they find creative ways to lose with that talent. Neither can get to a champion level, despite having a few pieces there that should be able to get into that position. 

That's why I can't take the Rockets as anything more than the Texans at current. You can, but you're ignoring significant flaws with the Rockets.

Melo and Lin were not big risks. Lawson was a small risk. 

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3 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Melo and Lin were not big risks. Lawson was a small risk. 

Didn't call them big risks. 

"Big" risks would be Ryan Anderson at 4/$80mm or Clint Capella at 5/$90mm...

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